It's only $400 plus coils and coil mounting on valve covers preferably. If you want/need details, email me.

While it's still the least expensive alternative to the Opti, the last post that Dean77 made said "Havent really priced the setup yet," and additionally, that price doesn't include the FAST computer, right?

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Hear LT1 cam WAVs, DIY head porting: members.***.net/gmarengo

'95, !CAGS, CAI, ForceII, Hooker Shorties, 14.2@103

 

Hi Fred- You've asked a ? of someone with utmost respect for your input/knowledge of subjects you respond to on this forum. To help answer your ? I'll quote myself.
Yes, designed to work with oem pcm. It also works with an aftermarket ecm. Maybe others, but at least the Fast/Speedpro that I am aware of.

[quote]<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Sorry for my ignorance. I have 10 of the $400 setups you are talking about sold. When can you ship?

Ryan, when can (I) ship? No, not me. I'm not that sharp to design something like this. I was just fortunate enuf to be pointed in the right direction by people on another 'list'. My feeble brain isn't positive of the email address to contact the entrepreneur/ engineer Bob Bailey. So, rather than correct an incorrect address later, I'll repost later when I can be sure. (soon)

Comments to above goals:
1. Accomplished
2. Accomplished
3. Accomplished
4. Ah, that's a negative. This setup uses the LS1 coils. In the past, they have been labeled as 'smart coils'. One of the reasons they are 'smart' is, I believe they have their own drivers.
5. Accomplished

Answers to questions:
1. I don't know. Maybe Bob will tell you this. Then again, maybe not.
2. With the help of the 'black box', yes.
3. Maybe in another type of setup, but not this one.

To reiterate: $400 supplies the module and wiring harness. You supply the coils and the means to mount the coils. I chose to mount them on the valve covers, which is preferred. I used the coil mounting brkts. from the '99-'00 LS1 vette/camaro, with some tweaking in one area to fit real nice on the LT1 cover, plus installing studs in covers.) Others have used just a flat plate. There is a story behind the reason for not including the coil mounting brkts, but it's not relevant. Later


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I'll be back

 

Anyone else have any answers to my questions? Thanks for the reply Arnie.

 

Its almost embarassing to admit I don't know how my own system works.... The MoTeC IEX 8-channel ignition "expander", a $325 item, essentially takes the single stream from the ECU and breaks it down into 8 channels of information....

That is what I use for my LS1 coils.

I guess I have to dig into the IEX and see what exactly is wired from the ECU, besides the single ignition data stream (which would normally be used to fire a single coil, if the IEX isn't there). I have the wiring diagram for the ECU, but I never got one for the IEX... it just got plugged into the ECU, and wired to the coils??????? What additional info does the IEX need to "break that signal from the ECU into the proper number of outputs and distributes them to the correct channel"? I would think it needs the cam position data.

MoTeC also makes the CDI/8, a stand-alone 8-channel capacitive discharge system driver, but that unit clearly requires either Hall effect or optical crank and cam position data (but it costs $2,430....).

Fred

 

For those interested, BB's email is bob@bailey-eng.com

Oh, and no, there is no incentive for me to give Bob the positive print. I just believe his 'LTCC' is worth the effort to inform and notify the forum about.

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I'll be back

[This message has been edited by arnie (edited June 05, 2002).]

 

The only thing I would need to implement it is a way to initially sync to a particular cylinder since firing order is known. The easy way would be using the leading edge of the #1 injector's PW (or any of the others).

Outside of that, Crank sensor if it didn't mind firing two coils at once. Cam pos sensor otherwise.



[This message has been edited by Luna (edited June 06, 2002).]

 

If the opti sensors output is utilized, the coil firing is trivial.

If you put a optispark on a logic analyzer's low and high rez lines, you will see that a reference to location in the 4 stroke cycle can be determined easily (hint: the disk has different size slots for the low rez sensor). The low rez is called 'reference' for a reason. The high rez just acts like tick marks on a ruler and increase resolution.

Using this info I can produce the firing order and let the pcm do the timing adjustment and injector work.


Personally,I don't mind the distibutor section. I just want to get rid of the POS sensor, well actually I want to move it to a place that is easier to deal with

 

Luna,

I agree that using the optispark signals you can produce the information needed to determine firing order and injector work (the PCM uses this information to control ignition and injectors, already).

1. How can output signals(ignition control signal and injector signals) from the factory PCM be used to control a capacitive discharge ignition system with 8 coils(to remove the high voltage parts from the optispark)??
2. You say that you like the distributor section but don't like the pos sensor. I think the position section of the optispark is the best part, because it has the high resolution no other ignition system has.
3. Can we use the ignition control signal and tap into the optispark high and low resolution signals to control a black box which controls the 8 coils?
3. Can you be more specific and descriptive of your proposed solution?

Thanks for the feedback Luna!

 

I would second the opinion on the optical section of the Opti being the best part. Kept clean, and assuming the bearing holds up, it should last forever. The high resolution from the 360 slots on the wheel would seem to offer a more useful signal than the system that relies on a single magnet attached to the cam (edited) sprocket, at least in terms of timing accuracy and repeatability.

On the other hand, the high voltage section is going to wear out like any other cap and rotor. The DIS systems eliminate this problem completely.

I think that the black box simply needs to know which coil to switch the spark signal to... essentially a "router". And the address is defined by the info from the low res pulse sequence. That capability existed in the Electromotive SDI controller, since it received only the single stream of data from the stock PCM spark signal wire, and the crank position data from the toothed wheel/sensor on the crank pulley.

The MoTeC IEX does exactly that also. The only difference is that the low res "reference" pulse is translated into "MoTeC" reference signal before it enters the processor, and then the processor appears to feed the reference pulse to the IEX unit. I need to confirm that though. The first thing I found when I was going through the notebook they keep at Second Street was the info on the low resolution pulse width pattern, and how it is used in the MoTeC, so I think I need to pick some brains.

Another unit to look at would be the Ford eDIS unit (not to be confused with the FAST EDIST), which appears to be the way Ford gets their PCM to control multiple coils.

Fred

[This message has been edited by Injuneer 94FormM6 (edited June 07, 2002).]

 

Since we have a chiken and the egg sort of situation, I would use the low rez line to sync and forget the inj info (no inj info if no optical section data, so lets just use it.)

1: Given the firing order and a tap into the injector signal(this may be skewed a little since off the top of my head)

Injector
firing
1 &lt;-Sync #coil1 fires 6
8 #coil2 fires 5
4 #coil3 fires 7
3 #coil4 fires 2
6 #coil5 fires 1
5 #coil6 fires 8
7 #coil7 fires 4
2 #coil8 fires 3

I'd use a microcontroller personally but could use a demux/adder to make it work. To sync the circuit, you know that #1 inj will fire during the intake stoke and that would place #6 at compression stoke(iirc) and shoud get the next spark. With a little finagling, the leading edge of the #1 can be used to establish sync. After than the coils fire sequentially with no concern of the inj pulse. The problem is that the inj pw varies so it may take a while to sync properly. After syncing, you there will be no problem. I would rather use the optical section though for syncing faster

2) I just don't like having a sensor that can't be replaced without yanking off the front of the engine. The optical section is well engineered but the location is plain sucky. A critical component in a volatile location with horrible access. That is my complaint. (can't you tell what I will be doing this weekend )

3) Yes that is what I was recommending (and that is all that is being done by the aftermarket) Unfortunately, I think the problem for most daily drivers is not the ditributor, its the cam position sensor malfunction. It would be a non issue if the optical section could be replaced in half an hour for 40 bucks (or just cleaned even). If this sucker goes out (ususally crud in the vacuum line or shot water pump) you have to yank it all. The black box approach offers no solution for the major problem. Without the optical section, nothing else will work unless you rig up a crank wheel.


Fred,
The last opti I took apart, the heads of the screws holding the disc to the drive were broken off. Weird huh?

-CAL

[This message has been edited by Luna (edited June 07, 2002).]

 

I have a friend that CNC machines aluminum. I am going to see if he could set up a program to CNC me a cover for the Opti. It would involve removing the cap and replacing it with his part. It would be grooved for an O ring so it would be perfectly sealed.

Correct me if I am wrong here, but isn't water in the opti only directly affecting the high voltage section? Kind of like getting water in your distributor cap? That, in turn, would end up causing rust in the bearings which is also accelerated by the ozone created by the high voltage section. I think if we just get the high voltage part out of the opti it will be nearly bulletproof. I further think that if I can get some aluminum covers machined the problem will be completely solved as we will then have a totally sealed unit.

Someone please verify if my suspicion to the opti failure is really due to water getting in the high voltage section. The optical pickup is a "sealed" part so the only thing I see happening is the bearing failing or rust getting in the way of the optical pickup portion.

Ryan

 

The opti's I have pulled apart, and its only a few, have suffered from either the optical section being blinded by rust particles, or the high voltage section developing tracking or burned contacts. I believe that the instances are sort of 2/3 high voltage and 1/3 optical, but that's just my personal experience on a few units. I think in my 94 unvented unit, the disc was tack-welded to the backing plate, not screwed. It could not be removed from the backing plate without damaging it. I think the screws were added in the vented models.

Mine failed from rust blinding. The high voltage section was absolutely like new at 50K miles. No sign of tracking, moisture, burned contacts, etc.

The rust in the optical section comes from the parts behind the optical disc. The flat surface that supports the disc, and the bearing retainer. The rust could easily be eliminated if these parts were made out of stainless steel. If you look at the pictures of Mike Chaney's Opti Disection page, even his vented unit appears to have suffered from "high water" level, as evidenced by the rust marks in the bottom of the casing. My 94 had the same signs of liquid accumulation in the rear section, but not in the high voltage section. I never had a water pump leak, and never got any kind of moisture within 5 feet of the engine, except whatevere came up form the road.

Appears the ideal solution would be a billet case, o-ring seals, a roller bearing in place of the friction bearing, and stainless steel construction of the internals. Without using the high voltage section, its conceivable that the front cover could be split, and access to the optical sensor made possible without removing too much else. That would not solve your problem with the broken screws, and that is actually the first time I've even heard off that problem.

I also like the MSD CPC "plug" approach, but that unit would be as hard to remove as an Opti, being under the cowl... maybe harder - pull the engine???? That unit would also introduce more slop because of the gear drive on the back end of the cam.

It will be interesting to see how long my "optical only" Opti lasts. George has had his working for at least 4 years. But his car and mine are not really daily drivers, nor do they accumulate appreciable mileage, and do not subject these parts to any sort of "real world" test.

Fred


[This message has been edited by Injuneer 94FormM6 (edited June 07, 2002).]

 

Ryan, the optical part isn't so sealed. Pourwater around the almost vertical plug of the opti and water will stand. Since there is a slight vacuum, it will get sucked in. The weather pack just isn't tight enough.

Fred, the bolt shearing seem to be caused by the failure of the vacuum harness and its oneway valve/resrictors(or the two tubes connected at the same source like a few blower installs do- They need a pressure gradient to be safe).
The surface area that the vacuum is applied to creates a big piston and a strong force against the components. I've heard of a few blown cars having the same problem.

This unit I have to take out is still under the 12mth GM warr. so I don't think I will take it down but I would like to!

-CAL

 

I have a 1995 Trans Am I am parting out. The opti cap is shattered due to the car hitting a tree at about 100 mph; I will have an opti I can take apart and inspect. I will see what you are talking about and see what can be done to address the moisture problem. Maybe I can get him to CNC the whole housing and a cover that the parts could go in.

Who knows. Maybe we can make something that works afterall..... It's worth a try. I really want to make something on a budget that we can afford as I am not rich.... I have 4 LT1's right now and would be willing to convert every one.

Ryan

 

Guys,

I like the idea of a CNC machined housing with roller bearings, o-ring seals, and stainless parts. A beefed up optispark could be the best solution.

Courtney