Ryan, what you fail to see it that a solution to a nonexistant problem has been found.

Lets talk particulars.

Will you be willing to spend close to $2000 on your ignition? Because for this solution to have a practical chance, that will be the requirements.

Now what happens with the CPS goes? you still have to buy a new Opti to swap bases. 190 bucks+.


As for the bearing failing due to ozone. Do you think water is coming in at the bearings? Have you seen this happen? I'd guess not. If the bearings go, the rotor and the optical section reaks havoc different problem. I'd suggest you go talk to a GM tech and see what they see as the major cause of failure. I'll bet you they say coolant.


I believe that Fred said he has 5K or so on his since offloading the distributor function. That in itself is not enough to validate the ASSUMPTION that the HV section is the problem. I know of many running MSDs for a MUCH long time with the stock dual vented opti.


Look it isn't whining. Its constructive criticism and considering how little you knew about the opti problems based on your initial plee for info on this thread, you might need to listen. Now are you trying to solve the problem or are you trying to make a buck.

 

Wow, I can't wait to see the outcome of this thread, you all have me on the edge of my seat

But just wanted to say thanks to ALL participants who are working on this, hopefully we will finally get a solution to this old problem.

[This message has been edited by kmook (edited July 05, 2002).]

 

It seems that there are still a few issues to be solved.
The plug at 10 o'clock, this plug is actuallyavery short piece of the wiring harness, why can't putting silicone and some heat shrink wrap on it seal it indefinately, if by some chance you need to disconnect it for some reason or another it disconnect about 8 inches up from the engine wiring harness, the part about the opti cap leaking I believe has been solved.

There is still the base bearing, is there anything that can be done about this? I have put a layer of silicon inbetween each section of the opti this seemed to keep it from having problems. The silicon on the raised ring that actually comes in contact with the engine seems to have kept all traces of oil out of the opti ( had a oil leak) so that seemed to work rather well. The only place moisture could get in at this point would be at the small hole in the ring that comes in contact with the engine at the 6 o'clock position.

I believe that this cap has solved the majority of the issues that were presented, the shaft was deemed a good piece, it was admitted that the bearing might be questionable but it will probably fail at some point regardless,no matter the quality (bearings do that) but the extra bearing in the new cap would take some of the stress off of the back bearing.

Anyone know what that hole in the ring on the base plate is for?

 

Well it looks like I have the solution for my car and my partner's car.

i am going to install a MSD distributor in the intake and just get rid of the opti all together.


He is going to buy the EDIS from FAST to use with his FAST computer and purchase the LS1 coil packs

We are both purchasing from Pace a opti cover this allows you to remove teh opti and just put the cover in its place.

For his system is there anything else that he will need. he is running a bank to bank system so he wont need a cam sensor.

Please comment on the system.

and other parts besides the ls1 coil pack that will need to be purchased.

 

Now, if I were out to "make a buck" I wouldn't have posted this. I posted this to get a compilation of a bunch of people so I (or someone else) could build or help build a decent ignition system for our cars. The ignition system will have to be reasonably priced and more reliable than the stock piece.

You are correct. I will be the first to admit I don't know everything about the optispark. Or a transmission. Or how an airbag works. That is the beauty of the internet. You can get a bunch of people together just like this and learn more than you would ever imagine. I just want to make sure we don't end up getting fights between people. I've seen threads go way off topic just like this and prefer to keep this one serious and keep all the energy directed towards OUR development of the opti solution.

I appreciate every one of you inputting your findings, facts, and opinions. All of this is helping us get closer to our goal.

I, too, am pretty excited to see the outcome of this thread.

While the aluminum cover may not be totally necessary, I do think it has some benefits over the stock cap. Yes, we could just leave the stock cap there and seal it but I, personally, would like to see a more complete package.

At any rate, here is where we are so far:

We know someone makes the electronics to put LS1 coil packs on our cars that is compatible with the optical pickup.

There has been an aluminum cover manufactured to take the place of the opti's cap.

Yes, there are still issues with the opti's base and fluid leakage concerns to be addressed; I think this is minor.

Nearly all of us have learned at least something in this thread, so that's good.



Ryan

 

As a daily driver my Caprice has reached close to 200,000 miles (About 600 miles away) Although I can not speak for the first 100,000 miles while it was a michigan state police car, I changed the cap and rotor on this car about 70,000 miles ago. So the original optical drive is still in tact and working.

Wouldn't the billet cap be more or less an option for someone who wanted to use it?
You COULD just use silicon and plug the plug towers or epoxy for that matter and have the same effect. (Assuming the cap doesn't get effected by heat..)

My problem when I took mine apart is the damn little bolts they have you bolting the cap to the housing. Off two optisparks 7 of the 8 bolts snapped off. I ended up using a drill and drilling out these bolts and then using coarse self taping screws to hold the cap in place. Now my car will stumble for a while after a car wash. Takes about 10 miles of 55mph driving to clear it out. I do not dare do anything much off idle while doing this or the car acts erratic.

Seems to me that normal diaelectric grease is not really made to live around high voltage. I work for a local govt and on the dump trucks and such they load up the connector with diaelectric grease. These connectors never corrode with all that "goop" in them. Now that you have removed the high voltage section would you be able to then pack this connector with the same diaelectric grease or would it possibly leak into the optics?

As another idea why don't we have a cap made that replaces the original cap and this spacer thus removing another layer of possible leaks. If this is done we have the flexability of having a socket made that would better seal if this is indeed a problem or atleast provide a different "angle of attack" for the wire and possibly a channel we could load up with grease?

I expect there will be a new optispark in my future. I would like to instead buy something that I can just stick on my car and be done with the optispark. Having a spark limitor for when I decide to go either NO2 or forced induction will be benifitial as well. I noticed one of the guys with one of these systems is in Detroit. I would be willing to come to Detroit to pick up needed components. (I live by Grand Rapids.)
How close are we to having a true replacement system? For now I would not mind just getting the coil pack setup and I would put vacuum caps on the plug towers for now.

So I have a better idea of how this system will interface....

Will it basically just plug into the place of the coil? Basically we just dont have any plug wires on the opti anymore and this unit basically goes where the coil was or does it goe beween the PCM and OPti while bypassing the coil assembly altogether?
I almost bought an SDI system. But by the time I had the cash available they were no longer selling the unit..

As a side note Elecromotive did publish a want ad in the DIY EFI mail list looking for someone to come work for them...
I know at the tieme I was quoted $1000 for the SDI system without the opti eliminator.

 

Luna - I'm not exactly sure why you're so dead set against a manufactured cap. It's made to more strict tolerances than a molded plastic cap and it doesn't distort when the screws are tightened, so it seals better. It will probably help keep some EMI out of the Opti when running an electric water pump. It definately looks nicer than the stock cap. I wanted one for my setup, and I thought others would be interested in it as well. And as a FYI, I'm not making any money from these - I'm not the one making them. I've been working on getting them made for others who would like to have one as well.

Out of the single Opti failure I've personally experienced, it was because of a leak between the cap and the plastic divider -- I could see where it had stained the plastic. The used Opti I bought had oil in it when I opened it up, and again, it had leaked between the cap and plasic divider and had discolored the plastic where it came in. Since my motor is out and the wiring harness is laying in the garage, I went and checked how well it sealed, and it's fine. When it's plugged in and I put a vacuum on it, the only leak I could get was from around the shaft. It's not like it's going to have alot of vacuum on it anyway, GM regulates it to less than 2" Hg. (FWIW, when I tested vacuum to the Opti awhile ago, I couldn't get it to even come up to 2" Hg at idle -- the lowest my gauge registers).

There are several other people who have removed the high tension side from the Opti and experienced better reliability. Fred is not the only isolated case.

I don't know why I'm posting all this, you seem to be closed minded about the whole thing. I know that I won't change your mind one way or another, no matter what I write.


To everyone else who's been interested in the cap, it came in today and I got a chance to take some pictures and look at the construction of the base a little closer. I do need someone's help though -- I need to verify how the shaft is indexed to the hub. To show you what I'm talking about, here's a picture. There is a small oval hole on the hub, and I believe it's lined up with the slot on the shaft that accepts the pin from the camshaft. Both of my opti's have been disassembled, so I don't have anything to reference. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Anyway, on to some pictures!
Here's some of the cap at different angles:
Pic 1
Pic 2
Pic 3

Here's the assembly process:
Exploded view.
Shim on hub.
Slotted disk on top of shim.
Base of rotor cut off to hold everything together. This isn't final production, the piece that will go here wasn't ready yet. I did this to hold it together for now.
Shield in place. This piece probably isn't needed anymore, but I installed it anyway.
Plastic separater in place.
Completed assembly.
Different view of completed assembly.
Another angle shot of completed assembly.

In case anyone would like the breakdown of the Opti, it can be found here:
The F-Body Shop (I hope they don't mind me posting a link to their site).


Nov 194 -- What hole in the ring of the base? I looked, but I'm not sure exactly what you're talking about.

elixir -- We looked at removing the center plastic divider, but it proved to be too time consuming and cumbersome to machine the connector plug into it. And I think there is a difference between the non-vented and the vented Optis, so two separate covers would have to be made. Yes, the billet cap is only an option for those who want it, but I believe that it will seal better since it holds tighter tolerances and distributes pressure around the circumferance more evenly. The problem I see with dielectric grease is that some people go way too overboard with it. you only want a nice, thin, even film on the silicone connector -- you don't want it on the contacts themselves, it acts like an insulator and will probably cause more problems than it helps.

[This message has been edited by Curt (pres AAMC & ZAA) (edited July 05, 2002).]

 

So. I've read this and I'm pretty excited. I have a 1996 Impala SS with an A4. But I have some questions:

1 - If I keep the optispark for high/low pulse with or without a cap, who makes the items I need to interface my PCM to the LS1 style coil packs?

2 - If I can come up with the coil packs, and the mounts and all that, do the electronics that would solve issue 1 above allow me to retain my PCM for the transmission, diagnostics, etc?

Hope I haven't stepped on my d!ck here. Just trying to get some solid information to make the swap.



------------------
Kelly 'GhoSSt' Rosato
1996 DGGM Impala SS, 385 LT4
1995 Formula Firebird, Stock
1993 Caprice, 406ci MPFI

 

I did post a link to this message on the Bbody mail lists I am on. So don't be suprised if some Impala and Caprice guys show an interest.

 

Um, well, if you look at the opti in it's assembled form and look at the backside of the base where it touches the engine there is a ring around the gear drive it measures about 3 7/8 inches across and is about 1/4 inch wide, it has a small gap at the bottom, is there anything we can do about this?
What's it for?

 

ghoSSt:

If you go back and read completely through the thread, you will see the person that is selling the electronics to put the LS1 coil packs on. The pcm still controls all timing like it used to so everything will be the same.

Ryan

 

I'm not against it one bit. Hell I will probably want one for my next engine if I don't put a shorty distributor on . Like I said it is pretty.

It is I don't think it will solve this particular problem. That is reason of the thread. I agree with the better bearings, but not the NEED of a new cap. But I do like the looks of it.

Whom else do you have reference of with a daily driver and better operation with a external box? I'd love to hear the particulars. 5k or even 15k isn't a good testimony.


First thing is I don't like running off the low rez only. I'd want a box utilizing the high rez line. A crank sensor plus lowrez is fine but low rez only I have a problem with. If it is mostly a strip car fine but I'm looking for a solution that will not take a rev or two to sync up before firing and have well behaved street manors.

What would flip my lid would be a new base that had an easy to replace (5-10min operation) CPS. This has been my objective. A sealed nice bearing would be nice.

Basically I understand that the sensor will fail ultimately so anything that can be done to facilitate the replacement with regard to cost and labor is my key motivator in this thread.

 

Luna, your last post explained where you are coming from and your position on the subject. Good post, it was I who was misunderstanding what you were trying to say, and I apologize.

Maybe this will allow me to make some points on the bearings GM choose to use, the base and the cap, since I now have a more specific path.

Originally, I set out to come up with something more aesthetically pleasing and turned to a skilled machinist who does amazing work. He's the one that came up with the idea of additional support for the shaft with the hopes of reducing issues with the main bearing. The bearing itself doesn't appear to be a problem, it's a good quality, sealed, made in Japan, ball bearing that is adequately supported and secured in the base of the Opti. The problem seems to arise that the shaft is only supported on one end. Originally, I don't think it was a problem on the 92-93 LT1's, since there was a center shaft between the Opti and the camshaft. When the design was changed, they went to a pin drive which sits off-center and puts a side load on the shaft of the Opti, which I believe causes premature wear. The idea was to support the shaft on both ends to eliminate the side load and prolong the life of the Opti. The long term issue, however, is that it's still a sealed bearing -- it will wear out since it's exposed to heat and there isn't a way to relube it. The answer would have been to use a wet bearing (like they did with the waterpump drive that's pressed into the block). But that would have opened up a whole new set of problems.

For longevity, I personally have over 20k miles on the same Opti using the E'motive setup. My car was a daily driver (until I decided to tear down the engine and do a rebuild). The pictures that I posted earlier of the Opti that was torn all the way down is the Opti I took off my car. The only problem with it was the bearing has some slop in it. Not bad, but way more than it should. I know that Fred has mentioned at least one other person using a system similar to his with no Opti problems. Maybe he'll chime in when he gets a minute.

As far as how the other systems utilize the Opti, I can't say -- I haven't really looked at them since I'm very happy with the Electromotive I currently have. In my setup, the ECM is still using the hi and lo resolution just like it always has, but I have a crank trigger that sequences the coil pack for baseline timing (the ECM still controls overall timing, although I can make the E'motive do it's own timing curve if I choose). Most of the time my car starts just like it did before the E'motive, but there are times it takes a an extra revolution or two for the coil pack to sync to the crank trigger. I don't think it's that big of a deal, but that's me.

The cap was built to try to resolve the issues I had with the Opti to the best of it's ability -- but within reason. Yes, a whole new base/cap setup could have been made, but the time to machine and build would make it way too cost prohibitive. Do I expect it to resolve all the issues? No, there are too many variables out there that make that unrealistic.

FWIW, even though that the new aluminum cap seals much better than the original, I will still run a vacuum line to it just in case some moisture happens to get inside of it. I am also contiplating using a piece of tubing in the weep hole of the waterpump in case it does leak so it won't spray all over the Opti -- more preventative measures. I am also curious if the reduced thickness of the Opti with the new cover will faciliate removal without having to take the water pump off. Doubtful, but I will look at that once I start rebuilding the engine.

I wish I had some answers for you about the other systems, but my part was only working on the cap. The other people who are building the systems will have to step forward and address those issues.

 

From what I understand the box arnie uses does use bout high and low resolution signals from the opti.
Have I misunderstood here?

 

Yes!

Curt, I'm a toolmaker by trade.....My compliments to the machinist.

http://www.impalassforum.com/cgi-bin...c&f=1&t=003361



------------------
I'll be back



[This message has been edited by arnie (edited July 07, 2002).]