I am not disputing THEM. I am disputing the idea that there are 600rwhp NA LT1 street motors out there. Or at least more than a handful and they probably stretch the idea of a street motor. I know nothing one way or t'other about AI. If they do that for a reasonable price I will be very impressed. But I am skeptical (in general) about what I read on the 'net when it contradicts what I see in the "real" world.

Rich

 

Fair enough.

 

Rich

 

The high 9 is their fastest NA customer, not their fastest customer, I would not call an f-body over 3400lbs "all out" either, it's a fast bracket car. How many other LT1s are running 9s NA much less with LT1 heads and intake????
Seems to me they have a customer with a large single turbo on GM head castings that has run 156mph. Jeff Gilbert's car has gone 9.0 at 151mph on their trickflows.
People often ignore information when they find it inconvenient or contradictory to their opinions, I think that is the case here.

 

yep, it is.

I really don't like to use a power adder car to prove claims, you can put alot of gas to anything tune it right and it will run.

I really don't care though......I need to go roll quarters and try to buy some fuel

 

Drive train loss is a variable, Wallace decided to use 10%, why I have no
clue. To adjust calculations for a specific car and conditions,
maxracesoftware has a free Quarter Mile DragStrip Simulation Program
that is awesome. Here's a screen shot calculating a 575 HP 365.

ET Analyst

 

I can understand that!

Its likely losing some time in the middle of the track, could be related to
the transmission. It's making good MPH, what is an AI 190cc package?

 

Advancedinduction.com their 190cc version of ported stock castings, now obsolete they no longer offer them.


Another thing to consider on Rick Abare's car is it is exactly the same parts anybody else can buy. It is not welded up heads or special valves or anything, the compression is lower than a lot of guys run on the street. Just an example of what can be done with the product they make readily available to the public.

Far as the tranny, it is 4 years old with 45K miles on it and was built for a mild ZZ4 cam only setup. Still working well but yeah probaly seen better days.

 

Come on now...think about it.....if he runs lowers compression than "alot of guys", why race gas? How much vaccum is he pulling in the upper rpms with his pump...I bet more than guys with street cars are willing to pull....and I bet that ties into his piston rings....probably low tension, very thin...stuff most guys don't know about it...as the transmission, why is it he can run a unit that is setup for a mild combo and it lives, over and over, I wonder what it is in that transmission to where everyone else with those pos transmissions are exploding them running considerably slower every year or two?

There is always more to the combo that what is published on a website...if it was that easy 10 dozen would have already done it.

I did read the article about Joe Overton's setup....I guess I should just go buy the identical parts and then expect those times?

 

On the rings and vacuum, I do not know but for an application like that I think it reasonable to assume it is low tension rings, but it is not like low tension rings equal 100hp or anything, and nobody claims it is a street car.

The 4L60E gets a bad rap because of bad builders, the same guy( pro-built.net ) that taught Rick to build them is the one who built mine, he has several customers in the 9s, think there is a sprayed LS running low 9s even. I have 4 years and 45K miles on my tranny. The Impala invited to the Pump Gasd Drags the last two years runs mid 9s at 146mph at 4500lbs on a Rossler 4L60E he gets refreshed anually, that is WAY more abuse than Rick's tranny gets. Only time the tranny ever broke was last year when he sheared all 5 wheel studs the resulting overrev broke a sprag.

The reason people are not duplicating results like these is they do not truely listen, they think they can reinvent the wheel, or trust someone else with parts to try and save a buck.
I have a tranny in my garage built with the same kit as mine was but assembled locally instead of by Dana at ProBuilt, I have 45K and mine is still going the other one failed repeatedly after just a few hundred miles behind less power in a lighter car. Problem is not the parts but rather the guy installing them, I found a piece of a rubber seal in the overrun clutches, not sure where it came from yet but am sure that is what destroyed them.

People like a good marketing line more than anything, some companies spend their effort on marketing, some on their product, almost invariably the company who spends it's time and money on marketing will have more sales than the one who instead put that effort into making the better product.

 

There is more power than people realize by running low tension oil rings and a vaccum pump....I do not think you realize the entire benefits of running such things together....better combustion....free power....the torque you gain down low....

As for the street car bit, they imply this with "pump gas capable".

I have spoke with Mr. Rossler himself about the strength of the 4L60E and there is a reason I have a TH-400 in my car for where I am going. In fact, he will try to sway you to a real transmission, the 4L80E and quit wasting everyone's time.

Will he fix and build it the best he can, you bet. Ever ask what his transmission cost?

And your remark about people do not listen is way off....the reality is people are listening, they just are not told everything.

My car will run well this upcoming season. Let's say you asked what cylinder head do I run? I tell you I run a set of AFR 210's. You listened and you go buy a set of AFR 210's. Maybe I should have said something about they are ported very well, flow very well, I have 2.20" intake valves, flow 250@.700" on the exhaust side....etc....but, you bought a set of AFR 210's and I have AFR 210's so they should be the same, eh?

There is always more to it and it everything was laid on the table guys like myself can easily afford to replicate the combos.

The car screams, don't get me wrong. But it is a shop car, something that most guys will never have so to simply forget this...so for normal guys that can get their cars within a few tenths is getting something done in my book.

 

The prior post corroborates on of my points which I keep harping on. Just because someone else has done something doesn't mean you will be able to duplicate it, even with the "same" parts.

Rich

 

Canton racer: You are WAY off about ricks car. It’s hard to have a shop car over 700 mi away from the shop. The other week when I was down at Ai tuning engines on the dyno, his 3 season old 383 was one of them. It was the first time the engine had ever left Rick’s possession. The point was to run it after over 2000 passes and 3 seasons to baseline it. It’s in the 600’s on 105 octane. It made another 7hp on top of that when we decided to pull it a couple times on local 93 octane (adjusted tune for fuel) from Amoco (which all other engines were tuned on).
There is a bleed valve in the back of the valve cover for the vacuum. The car ran no pump for a season and a half so no, the ring package is not specific to all out racing applications. On the dyno and track the bleed valve keeps it pulling 6-6.5in vacuum. From no vacuum to 6.5in we gained 8hp. For the last pull Phil cranked the bleed shut to see what kind of vac the pump was capable of. It made 15in and another 6hp.

Why does Rick run “race” fuel at the track instead of pump gas? It’s because, pump gas is totally inconsistent. It’s better to sacrifice a few hp to run a fuel that will keep the car dead on his dial in every time.

The engine is a lot less “special” than you guys make it out to be. It’s just good parts put together right. Rick’s car has a lot of compromises like weight and suspension setup. With 530rwhp he could easily get into the mid 9’s if he’d alter a few things. Still, it’s a bracket car, not an all out “shop car.” There is no sense in marketing a time bomb.

Someone mentioned something about the fastest thing they’ve done work on has only gone high 9’s. Well, when I was down there I met 2 customers who Ai does work for that both run low/mid 6’s at over 200mph. They aren’t some shade tree operation who only does work on LT heads. There’s no way they could pay for all the high-end equipment doing just this LT stuff. Who knew

 

of course there is always more...more attention to detail, more trial & error, more commitment to make it right than just 'okay', more time invested in the assembly, more time & research into parts, more time away from the internet boards (which are 'misinformed' a majority of the time) - take your pick.

Ricks car, and Joe's for that matter, are well thought-out and meticulously assembled race cars using methods & assembly procedures/tricks in the profession that have made champions out of a select few. There is a total commitment to go fast with zero compromises.

 

Well stated. Their client list would make some here crap and fall back into it.