LT1 Based Engine Tech 1993-1997 LT1/LT4 Engine Related

Hmm wtf Density altitude is messing with my head, Please help!

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Old Aug 22, 2003 | 05:17 PM
  #1  
thewinner's Avatar
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Cool Hmm wtf Density altitude is messing with my head, Please help!

I am trying to figure out the DA of my track times on wednesday.

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...hreadid=161316 in that thread a mustang site calculator was linked and i tried it on it and it gave me 16k DA, i thought it was bogus and just moved on.

However I found another DA calculator, http://wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_da_rh.htm and it gives the eact same results!!

5800 ft, barometer of 23.41 temp of 76, humidity? i have no clue, it doesnt effect the DA that much as far as i have seen from the calculator

16,193 ft DA that means the air up here is only ~60% as dense as sea level air Even with No humidity!!!!

Does this seem right? Both calculators give the exact same DA. The mustang one i believe is wrong on the correction factor though, cause it says ill run mid nines.


Also looking at the same site with the dyno calculator: http://wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_hp.htm

It is showing that the motor is making 60% of the power it would at sea level....


WTF help me out here LOL!
Old Aug 22, 2003 | 09:31 PM
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Thumbs up

The DA here in the Chicagoland area is 959!!! I wish I was at a track tonight.... 632 FT above Sea Level is the track & it is 64 degrees with a Barometer of 30.15 & Humidity is 43%!!! This is a rare cool summer night here in Chicagoland... I took the car out earlier & Daym!!!!! It has 11.8seconds all over it!!!

Where are you located? How could your barometer only be 23?
Old Aug 22, 2003 | 10:09 PM
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thats impossible!
Old Aug 22, 2003 | 10:35 PM
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5800 ft....bandimere...colorado...yes 23 is possible, dont tell me its not lol its on the time slip
Old Aug 22, 2003 | 11:43 PM
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From: "Shoulda Gotton An LS1 Racin"
Originally posted by thewinner
5800 ft....bandimere...colorado...yes 23 is possible, dont tell me its not lol its on the time slip
I truely don't think the barometer was 23... That slip is wrong. Right now the DA at Bandimere is 7918. Temp 75, Alt 5800, barometer is 30.23 & rising & Humidity is 34% I have never in my life seen a barometer lower than 28.5.....

That altitude sucks.....
Old Aug 23, 2003 | 08:37 AM
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well its writen on all 9 timeslips from that night.

weird maybe it is wrong.

any sites that you can go back and check the weather fro mthe past week out?

9578 ft with 59% humidity, 5860 elevation, 29 barometer, 76 degrees
Old Aug 23, 2003 | 08:45 AM
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i also ran 103.54 mph with the temp at 86 degrees. how should i estimate the barometer? Just watch the weather.com tonight at about the same time and see?

EDIT: Interesting......

Absolute Barometric Pressure, expressed in inches of Mercury ("Hg), is not the same as what is reported on weather forecasts, which is Sea Level Corrected pressure. Absolute is the actual air pressure at elevation. Roughly every thousand feet of elevation reduces barometric pressure by one inch of mercury. For instance, if you were in Colorado at 6000', the absolute pressure would be around 24 "Hg, while the Sea Level Corrected reading would be around 30 inches. By using absolute, you need not recalibrate for every new location, and you need not know the elevation of the track.

When the barometric pressure is higher there is more oxygen available for combustion in a given volume. During a typical 12 hour period the barometric pressure will change only 1 to 2 tenths of an inch of Mercury (for example from 27.24 to 27.40). An approaching front may bring in air that is higher or lower by 1"Hg (28.95" to 27.95").

Barometric pressure is caused by the gravitational pull on the 'column of air' lying directly above the place you are measuring. It is usually measured with an altimeter or barometer. Creative racers (with way too much time on their hands) may wish to experiment with a hypsometer, which indicates pressure by monitoring the boiling point of water.
So really, the barometer would probably be around 24, so maybe the timeslip isnt off after all?

****........

Last edited by thewinner; Aug 23, 2003 at 09:02 AM.
Old Aug 23, 2003 | 12:05 PM
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The explanation is actually in my ScanMaster writeup... pilots reset their in-cockpit barometers to standard conditions, based on the airport they are using.

The standard barometer for sea level is 29.92"Hg

The standard baromter at 6,000-ft is 23.98"Hg.

It is VERY possible to see low 23's for barometer at Bandimere.

You need to use the "corrected" barometer reading in the aircraft site calculator, not the "absolute" barometer. You are "double dipping" on altitude in those calculators if you enter both the 5,800-ft value, and the "absolute" barometer.

Here's the section on Barometer from my ScanMaster writeup:

BAR (Barometric Pressure):

This is the barometric pressure in the area where you are driving. At sea level, the barometric pressure is about 30" Hg (inches of Mercury). As your elevation increases, the barometric pressure decreases, since this is effectively the weight of the air pressing down on you from the very top of the air layer that surrounds the earth. In Denver, for example, at 5,800 ft. elevation, the barometric pressure might only read 24.0 "Hg. As atmospheric conditions change at any location, the barometric pressure will change slightly. When a storm approaches, the barometric pressure will drop.


ELEV - STD BAR

Feet - "Hg

0 - 29.92

1,000 - 28.86

2,000 - 27.82

3,000 - 26.81

4,000 - 25.84

5,000 - 24.89

6,000 - 23.98

Different scanners can report the readings in different units. Some scanners read in "kiloPascals" (kPa). 100 kPa is roughly "one atmosphere" or 30" Hg. There is a table below, under MAP, showing the equivalent readings in "Hg, kPa and sensor Volts.

In effect, in a naturally aspirated engine, this is the maximum pressure you can see in your cylinders as they pull the air/fuel mixture into the cylinder. The higher the barometric pressure, the more air can potentially be fed into your engine. Just remember, there is nothing you can do to change BAR…. It is a reading of the atmosphere, not your engine, and should be very close to the barometric pressure reported by the local weather service, or printed on your dragstrip time slip.

If you want to check your stock "1 Bar" sensor, the output voltage should be about 4.8 Volts with the key on, but the engine not running. If you have a supercharged engine, and are running a speed-density or N-Alpha system, you might have a "2 Bar" or "3 Bar" sensor.

The MAP sensor measures the barometric pressure when the key is turned on, but before the engine starts. The sensor is about the size of a domino, black plastic, and mounts at the front/passenger side of the intake manifold.

The barometric pressure readings shown above for various altitudes were challenged by an aircraft pilot, who claimed he had been to cities like Denver and never seen anywhere near 24"Hg. What he failed to understand was that pilots are provided with a barometric pressure that is "corrected" to sea level. They need this data to calibrate their altimeters, entering the barometric data in the Kolisman window on the altimeter. But this data is not applicable to the power output of an internal combustion engine. The table above is correct.
Old Aug 23, 2003 | 08:19 PM
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sigh, im confused

THe absolute and standard makes little change to the DA

http://wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_hp.htm

Air Temp: 76
Altimeter: 23.98
Humidity: 50% (doesnt change DA that much)
Elevation: 5800

DA: 15694 ft


Old Aug 23, 2003 | 10:58 PM
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Its not the difference between "absolute" and "standard" that you need to look at..... its the difference between either of those and "corrected".

Put in 29.92"Hg, and the density altitude becomes 8,412-ft. Makes more sense.

You would need an actual barometric pressure "corrected" to sea level. That's what pilots get from the local (Denver) airport. They set that in the altimeter.

By using "absolute" barometer in the calculator, you are taking credit twice for the 5,800-ft altitude. I was not trying to point out that you needed to use the "standard".... 23.98 in the calculator. The only reason I raised that point was to explain to the people who told you a 23.42"Hg barometer was impossible, that it was completely possible.
Old Aug 24, 2003 | 09:30 AM
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muahahah emailed the author of that site and he has another calculator with the absolute pressure

http://wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_hp_abs.htm

:-D

Thanks Fred, now i understand what you explained.
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