Forced Induction Supercharger/Turbocharger

HP Tuners for Boost....

Old 01-15-2015, 07:55 PM
  #1  
Registered User
Thread Starter
 
DirtyDaveW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Upstate New York,USA
Posts: 1,789
HP Tuners for Boost....

I've put this up on another board and thought I'd also put it here. I know most of us are/have been LT1 based but those that have/will opt for the 24x will use HPTuners too. This will work for either Lsx or 24x(LT1) I'm sure.
Please bear with me as some of the picture links might not show up right away. The site I'd used alternately uses web based pictures or one's it has pulled off my laptop.
=======================================
I've been getting my forged 5.3 ready for a 3 bar boost setup and ordered/paid for the HPTuners Pro on 12/4/2014. I bought it from the HP site and got immediate acknowledgement that I'd paid. But nothing since. No software, no confirmation/tracking number email, no responses to my emails. Is that what you good people that purchased it found? Seems rather poor interaction with the customer if so.
Note: (2014/12/19) I'll put this on the first post. In summation, to get the quickest delivery of the HPTuners, most people that posted responses indicated it is best to order from a distributor(Summit, local speed shops, etc) and ASK if they have it on the shelf, in stock before buying. They will send you a confirmation/tracking number and will communicate with you after the sale. HPTuners.com will not. They will not respond to your emails. It took 14 days, point to point, from Paypal transaction till it arrived at my door. I received a UPS tracking number on day 12 and the software on day 14. It is great software and I look forward to using it but I think HPTuners is not really setup for the retail sales. One gent replying said he ordered the software from Summit and had it two days later. Another said he bought it in a speed shop and walked out with it.

(2014/12/19) Now that I have the software, I plan to detail what it takes to tune a 5.3 with a 3 bar speed Turbo setup for my 96 Z28, TH350 w/4,000 stall. This is a street strip car. I will keep the concrete conclusions, settings on this first page so you won't have to wade through a lot of pages to get to the meaningful stuff.

(2015/01/02)I want to say a couple of things here to clarify/state a few things before you read further
  • All screen shots I'm taking are from my own HPTuner Pro software, version 2.24.966. If you have an earlier version, some of the screens may have a different appearance. You can download the latest version for free from the HPTuners site.
  • All references/values/proceedures I'm making at this initial effort are straight from Dan Maslic's book "MASTER EFI TUNER - GM EFI - Second Edition"
  • If you see something that you feel is incorrect or needs explanation, feel free to say so in a post. If it needs to be explained, let me know.
  • One gentleman has already pointed out something that he felt was in error but it is straight from the book and it concerned Open Loop Equalizer settings. This was related to removing/altering the *adaptive fuel controls*. Dan has the tuner do this for a temporary basis as the tune is being evolved so that the PCM won't try to correct fueling automatically while the tuner is trying to dial in the settings in the VE table. I believe Dan is doing this as an 'extra ounce of precaution', preferring to let the tune be somewhat rich while we search for the optimal settings. Once the tune is satisfactory, the tuner is to reapply the OE settings to all the adaptive fuel control tables. I thank the gent for mentioning his concern.
  • Once I have all the documentation in place and people have had a chance to review/vet the content, I will place the entire documentation here in this first page.


For clarity, these are from the HPTuners documentation for initial setup...
Application Procedure (GenIII V8)

To apply the enhancement to your PCM please use the following procedure. NOTE: the procedure involves the use of the "Write Entire" process. This process is not guaranteed to be safe. Please do not attempt to write the entire VCM if you have had any trouble reading or writing the VCM in the past. If an error occurs during writing of critical operating system components and the VCM is powered down, the VCM will become unrecoverable via software methods.
1.Start with a stock or existing tune from the PCM.
2.Open the file in VCM Editor
3.Select Operating System, a window will appear with choices available.
4.Apply the relevant modification by clicking the button.
5.When prompted, save the file under a new name something like "XYZ_2bar.bin". This is now your new "Base" file that must be used for all future tuning.
6.The editor will automatically close the file after saving.
7.Open the newly saved file in the editor. You should see that the operating system ID has changed from your original file.
8.(This step for 2bar and 3bar enhancement only) The VE table will be full of invalid data. You *must* create a valid VE table before writing the file to the PCM. It is a good idea to copy your previous VE table into the non-boost region and then copy and increase the last row of the VE table to the new boost area. It is important to start tuning on the rich side (higher numbers) and then work back to your desired AFR.
9.Save the file in the editor, you are now ready to write to the PCM.
10.IMPORTANT: The next step involves using the "Write Entire" option. Remember this option is not 100% recoverable on failure in some circumstances. Do NOT disconnect the battery if you have problems during this next step. Once this step is completed you can use the regular "Write VCM" function for all tuning changes.
11.Connect to the vehicle and turn on ignition, wait 10secs.
12.Still in VCM Editor with your file open, select Flash -> Write Entire. The process takes approximately 2-4 minutes depending on vehicle type.
13.When the write is completed, turn off ignition and wait 30secs.
14.Turn on ignition, wait 10secs.
15.The PCM should display the new operating system ID. (Not available on GM 98 V8 vehicles)
16.At this point the VCM should be now running the new operating system and you can now use the regular and safe "Write VCM" for all future tuning changes.
17.Do not perform steps 17 and 18 if you are running 2bar on a GM 98 V8 vehicle. The SAE MAP PID has been reconfigured in the OS for your vehicle to read properly.
18.(This step for 2bar and 3bar enhancement only) Open VCM Scanner and connect to the vehicle. Open the Table display (Scan -> Table Display). Right-click the "Manifold Air Pressure (SAE)" PID and select "Delete". This removes the existing 1 bar PID from the table, if you don't do this the histogram will not function correctly.
19.(This step for 1/2/3 bar Speed Density enhancements only) Right-click the "Mass Air Flow(SAE)" PID and select "Delete". This removes the existing MAF PID, if you don't do this the histogram will not function correctly.
20.(This step for 2bar and 3bar enhancement only) Right-click again on the table display cell and select "Insert", go to the Engine -> Airflow section and choose either the "Manifold Air Pressure - 2 bar" or "Manifold Air Pressure - 3 bar" PID, double-click to insert it into the table.
21.(This step for 2bar and 3bar enhancement only) Save the new scanner configuration using File -> Save Config.
22.You are now ready to tune using your new enhanced PCM.



Got here a day early with some other goodies...




HPTuners Pro, GM. Aeromotive Fuel pressure gauge and -6, -8 ORG to AN fittings for my Aeromotive A1000 Fuel Pressure Regulator.

Last edited by DirtyDaveW; 01-15-2015 at 07:57 PM.
DirtyDaveW is offline  
Old 01-15-2015, 08:14 PM
  #2  
Registered User
Thread Starter
 
DirtyDaveW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Upstate New York,USA
Posts: 1,789
Re: HP Tuners for Boost....

Starting out from a stock file and going to a 2 bar Speed density. This is not complete yet!
I'm just starting out but as I go along, I'll get to all the elements of setup , then using histograms and Real Time Tuning...

Reminder before you start:
Save your stock initial flash file with a unique name and save it to two or three different locations so you have a recourse if you ever need to start over or refresh some table(s). I save mine to my laptops harddrive in a specific subfolder, then again on a thumbdrive and lastly, I email it as an attachment to myself. Use a COPY of the original file to start your tuning.




Opening up the Operating system...


Viewing to see current OS...


Select 2 bar Speed Density...


Selected...


Save changed flash file with new name...


Write the 2 bar SD to the PCM now...





Now, lets disable the MAF Sensor ...


Select the Airflow tab....

Last edited by DirtyDaveW; 01-15-2015 at 08:23 PM.
DirtyDaveW is offline  
Old 01-15-2015, 08:15 PM
  #3  
Registered User
Thread Starter
 
DirtyDaveW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Upstate New York,USA
Posts: 1,789
Re: HP Tuners for Boost....

The MAF setting before...


The MAF setting after (disabled)...


Resetting/removing the speed limiter...





Torque Management...




Last edited by DirtyDaveW; 01-15-2015 at 08:24 PM.
DirtyDaveW is offline  
Old 01-15-2015, 08:16 PM
  #4  
Registered User
Thread Starter
 
DirtyDaveW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Upstate New York,USA
Posts: 1,789
Re: HP Tuners for Boost....




Before beginning tuning the fuel delivery, you must first disable all of the 'adaptive fuel controls' (force open-loop operation at all times) and change all AFR EQ Ratios to the appropriate desired value (typically 12.5:1)
To start Click on "Engine"


Note, that after tuning the VE tables, you will need to restore all these values to their original settings so that adaptive fueling controls can work.







DirtyDaveW is offline  
Old 01-15-2015, 08:17 PM
  #5  
Registered User
Thread Starter
 
DirtyDaveW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Upstate New York,USA
Posts: 1,789
Re: HP Tuners for Boost....













More coming soon! As soon as all is complete, I'll move this section to the first page.
DirtyDaveW is offline  
Old 01-15-2015, 08:28 PM
  #6  
Registered User
Thread Starter
 
DirtyDaveW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Upstate New York,USA
Posts: 1,789
Re: HP Tuners for Boost....

I appreciate all input. At present, everything I'm stating in here is straight from Dan Maslic's book "MASTER EFI TUNING - GM EFI - Second Edition" .
The formula in this book is on page 139. Since the context is tuning prior to dyno testing, and given the many references Dan makes to erring on the side of safety in this very temporary effort, I can only surmise he's providing an extra element of safety in the initial setup. Once the tune has been refined to a satisfactory level, he adds, "Keep in mind that once you've fully completed tuning the vehicle, you will reverse all of these adaptive fuel modifications and return them back to the OE settings."
The text that accompanies this is ...
This will force the ECM to calculate an AFR of 12.54:1 at all times as you have already altered the calibration to operate in open loop at all times. The formula behind this calculation is as follows. The ECM calculates the desired target AFR by dividing the stoichiometric value by this tables value at each IAT and ECT point in the table. So, using the stoichiometric value of 14.67822 that you retrieved earlier, you divide it by 1.17 and your result is 12.5 (14.67822 / 1.17 = 12.545
================================================== ===
Fuel Injector settings...
The values here *should* come from the manufacturers data sheet. Dan's settings in his case study for the Turbocharged Z28 are for some 60#'s. I am using Bosch 127#(@ 4bar/58psi) in my setup.

Setting up the fuel injector can be tricky. There are several tables to setup or at least, review.
Things to keep in mind before setting this:
  • You really need the 'data sheet' for the injectors. This document, usually obtained with the purchase of new injectors, has all the vital information regarding flow rates, voltages, offsets, etc. When I bought my 127# Bosch injectors, I had to badger the seller for the data sheet. I'm not sure but it seems at times that the injector vendors and the professional tuning enterprises are in collusion and trying to prevent "Joe six pack" from tuning on his own. If you have a datasheet for any of the higher end injectors, send me a copy or a link and I'll portray it here. I will post my 127# data sheet settings too.
  • There is a context of your Automatic Fuel Pressure Regulator of which you need to be aware. Note this... If you FPR is 'manifold referenced', meaning that how much fuel pressure varies based on vacuum or boost pressure, you'll set some tables differently that you would if the FPR was NOT manifold referenced. People using the Corvette filter/FPR setup have a NON-manifold pressure FPR. It just stays at a constant 58psi. If you have a vacuum line going from your intake to your FPR, then you have a manifold referenced FPR.
  • Some of our HP Tuner editors are set up to use pounds, Fahrenheit, while others will use grams, Celsius and Kilograms. You can easily switch from one to the other and back by moving your mouse cursor up to the top menu bar, selecting “Tools” and then “Options”. “Imperial” will be Pounds, Fahrenheit and Metric will be Kilograms and Celsius. Additionally, there are various conversion utilities out there for going from one to another . The HP Tuners software has some built-in calculators(Up on the menu bar, click “Tools” and then “Calculator” or “Unit conversion”.

On the first tab of my FIC 1200cc (127#) datasheet (provided in Excel) it has this notation.
"**If you are using a FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR that is manifold referenced, please populate the ENTIRE table(s) with the FIRST column of data in RED. If you do not understand, please ask us."

Here is the "First column of data in RED" of which they refer. They are simply stating, If you have a "manifold referenced" FPR, take the value that is in red and paste it into every cell in the associated table instead of the discrete cell values that are in the rest of the table.



I will assume you all are familiar with the Excel 'highlight, copy, paste' functions so I can, for the sake of brevity, simply show the fuel injector setting tab/buttons/boxes, with each button notated with A, B, C.. etc and then my data sheet with the associated A, B, C .. etc. and you'll know that means the datasheets A, B, C goes into the boxes/tables in HP Tuners Fuel injector boxes/tables.










Power/Boost Enrichment...








DirtyDaveW is offline  
Old 01-15-2015, 08:30 PM
  #7  
Registered User
Thread Starter
 
DirtyDaveW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Upstate New York,USA
Posts: 1,789
Re: HP Tuners for Boost....









VE Table initial setup... This is how Dan initially configures the VE table for his project car in the book. The car is a 2002 Z28 LS1. Stock motor internals, but with 60# injectors and a free flowing exhaust. This car will be setup to only run about 9psi, presumably because of the stock internals. This would get most of us forced induction guys started on our tunes. It is a safe setup as Dan mentions, he's done this particular setup tune many times, knowing the limitations of such a engine configuration. Using a wide band on HPTuner Pro and integrating it into the Histogram(This is basically a log, but a specific log of AFR with X and Y axis of MAP KPA vs RPM), you can not only see where your fueling is lean/rich, but programmatically apply the correction to your flash with a 'cut n paste' click of a couple of buttons! I will delve into the integration of the Histogram later. I still want to portray spark setup before going to 'fine tuning'.






DirtyDaveW is offline  
Old 01-15-2015, 08:31 PM
  #8  
Registered User
Thread Starter
 
DirtyDaveW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Upstate New York,USA
Posts: 1,789
Re: HP Tuners for Boost....







You may notice a screen shot change. My trusty Gateway that has served me faithfully since 2006 is getting chkdsk errors every day. I had to get a new laptop with Win7.
Dan's final VE setup for 9psi, still leaving 175% above that to be intentionally rich in the event that customer had boost creep, etc...


And here, I've taken Dans final settings and interpolated (Just as a further example of the interpolation function) the 140 to 210 KPA range...
DirtyDaveW is offline  
Old 01-16-2015, 01:19 AM
  #9  
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 4,790
Re: HP Tuners for Boost....

I read this over on LS1 tech but I haven't had much time to respond lately. Anyway, I usually have better results with just turning the adaptive fuel system off with HP scanner temporarily instead of screwing with that part of the tune. You don't have to remember to re-enable it later, just unplug the scanner and it goes back to PCM control.

If you check out the VCM controls tab there's a bunch of different things you can do like force open/closed loop modes, manual fan control, IAC steps/Desire RPM (both actually). That last one is actually really handy for getting high IAC counts down with an adjustable throttlebody and slotting the TPS.
97WS6SCharged is offline  
Old 01-16-2015, 06:59 AM
  #10  
Registered User
Thread Starter
 
DirtyDaveW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Upstate New York,USA
Posts: 1,789
Re: HP Tuners for Boost....

Thanks for the input Chris! As always, it's appreciated. By the way, I FINALLY heard from the machine shop on my 5.3... They start on it next week. It's frustrating that it's taken so long but he (Bedell Racing Engines) has a stellar reputation. He has 30 race motors he has to finish before Spring arrives.

Originally Posted by 97WS6SCharged View Post
I read this over on LS1 tech but I haven't had much time to respond lately. Anyway, I usually have better results with just turning the adaptive fuel system off with HP scanner temporarily instead of screwing with that part of the tune. You don't have to remember to re-enable it later, just unplug the scanner and it goes back to PCM control.

If you check out the VCM controls tab there's a bunch of different things you can do like force open/closed loop modes, manual fan control, IAC steps/Desire RPM (both actually). That last one is actually really handy for getting high IAC counts down with an adjustable throttlebody and slotting the TPS.
DirtyDaveW is offline  
Old 01-16-2015, 07:58 PM
  #11  
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 4,790
Re: HP Tuners for Boost....

Nice! I've been looking to see what kind of non-Precision turbos I can find for the 408. Lil John recommended twin Turbonetics 7268s which seem huge to me. Need to talk to Martin about them when I get some time.
97WS6SCharged is offline  
Old 01-16-2015, 09:17 PM
  #12  
Registered User
Thread Starter
 
DirtyDaveW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Upstate New York,USA
Posts: 1,789
Re: HP Tuners for Boost....

Damn. I don't know what kind of lag you might have with those but once underway, whoooosh!!!
DirtyDaveW is offline  
Old 01-17-2015, 09:03 AM
  #13  
Registered User
Thread Starter
 
DirtyDaveW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Upstate New York,USA
Posts: 1,789
Re: HP Tuners for Boost....

You guys that have HPTuners, have you wondered (like I did when I first got my HPTuners) what the buttons are on the dongle and "How do I use them"?


I found this helpful video on HPTuners...
http://www.hptuners.com/help/demos/s...onelogging.swf
DirtyDaveW is offline  
Old 12-01-2016, 05:37 PM
  #14  
Registered User
Thread Starter
 
DirtyDaveW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Upstate New York,USA
Posts: 1,789
Re: HP Tuners for Boost....

I've been updating this same thread on ls1tech.com but failing to keep this one current. One thing of importance for the Gen 3 PCMs is to set the transient minimum fuel milligrams to something like .020. This allows big injectors to get down to their minimum pulsewidth. Leaving this at the standard setting of .040 with my 127# injectors resulted in 11.x AFR at idle. Once I set it to .020, I can get it to idle at 18:1 if I want. Not that that's practical, I just want to demonstrate that you can get there

To set that value...
Open your tune then, click ENGINE then Click the FUEL tab, then the TRANSIENT tab. Then change "Min Fuel Milligrams" in the upper left corner of the resulting tab.
DirtyDaveW is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
GREEN3112
Parts For Sale
3
02-10-2019 09:19 PM
fift5
Computer Diagnostics and Tuning
11
10-01-2015 10:31 AM
95_lt1_z28
LT1 Based Engine Tech
9
08-30-2015 06:17 PM
PFYC
Supporting Vendor Group Purchases and Sales
2
08-24-2015 06:41 AM
colts0455
LT1 Based Engine Tech
22
07-24-2015 04:51 PM


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: HP Tuners for Boost....


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.