There are stock eliminator cars that weigh 3500-3600lbs and run 10.80's and I'm pretty sure they make less than 500whp.

 

Its very obvious that his car is not up to par. For all we know it could have 8degrees of knock retard and be running 10.8 A/F ratio.... at least thats how my mailorder was. The comparison test would only be valid if you have a consistent car that is running to its potential. If this comparison was to ever happen the heads would need to be purchased by a third party so that they weren't given special attention. Then the results would need extensive documentation for anyone to beleive the results. Congrats to Rick your car is flat out amazing.

 

[QUOTE=526 SS 96;4163237]I have an even better idea!!!
Lloyd can refund the head $$ to Tricked-Out-Toy since his performance is clearly sub par.

AI can offer a set of heads to the guy and have him install their heads with the same tune, same mufflers, same complimenting parts and go to the track and get the same 2.1X 60 ft and run VERY similar times and MPH.

Trickeed Out Toy is willing to find these problems and correct them in time but maybe AI can step up and offer some heads to him and he can stop looking for problems and compare the heads.

Dwayne, compare the cams at .050, .100, .200, .300, .400, and .500 and I am SURE that even you could see a difference in the lobe profile of Ricks (or ANY solid roller) cam and my LE2 cam. I doubt if his cam will work with 26918bee hive springs.

 

96flame, I think the question should be “what if it is running at it’s potential?” There have been numerous 110-114mph cars with LE’s biggest and baddest topend (do a search). Could be a freak thing, could be normal, could be a 50/50 deal. I thought the nice thing about a CNC’d head was consistency. The head is a huge variable, and the machine doesn’t have bad days or decide it just can’t afford to put that little bit of extra time into a customers job.




Ai can “step up” by “offering” up a set of their cylinder heads to make one of your customers put up respectable numbers? You keep posting that you are “VERY” confident that Rick’s (or “Tricked-out-toys”) car would run +/- 1mph & .1sec with your head. I can’t be the only one wondering this, but if you have at least 10x the customers out there, and your best is a second off and 100hp+ short of Rick’s Ai topend, what about that instills this unreal sense of surety? Why don’t you just ask Ai to build you an engine and a car so you’ll have something competitive? It wouldn’t be much more than you’re asking now.

The point is, swaps and back to back comparisons are not only profoundly unlikely, but completely unnecessary. The facts speak for themselves. This “stepping up” by begging for Rick’s contact info appears to be nothing more than posturing to attempt to save face on a message board full of people who have been lead to believe that you are the unrivaled master of LT-X cylinder head porting. The potential of Ai’s head isn’t in question here, it is up to you to prove you’re competitive, not Ai to create their own competition. Ai can “step-up,” wow.

Lets be clear, you would never get this type of response out of Ai’s customers if we didn’t get sick and tired of watching you attempt to discredit and downplay Ai’s achievements with a bunch of “what if’s” and “yeah but” excuses. Go build something competitive with the parts you’ll sell anyone and then come and tell us about it. Or, simply be happy that it appears you have 90% of the lower-end cylinder head market while Ai’s niche appears to be on the opposite (and much smaller) end of the spectrum. We are all consumers and enthusiasts and would like nothing more than to have two choices that have been documented to offer equal performance on all products in question from low-end to high-end. For the good of the community, please, You asked for this, so put up or shut up.

 

I think people are stuck in this old thinking that Ai's stuff is more expensive than LE's. It may of use to be but it isn't anymore especially for what you get. I just checked and for the Competition CNC ported Ai heads setup ready to go with a cam is only 2000. For LE3 heads and cam its 2050. I think i'd go with the Ai's if it was me.

 

Maybe its just me but I don't see Ai in here posting to make themselves look better. ET and MPH speak for themselves, nuff said

 

After reading this I was a bit disturbed with someone wanting to speak for a certain shop even though that someone is in no way directly involved. Especially the "begging" spin you've attempted to put on this. All I read was Lloyd asking for the phone number. Not sure what you read.
However I do see your point with the variables involved in just slapping some heads on and the combo not being fully utilized because of possible cam/tune differences... variables galore.
That's why my second proposal is the two said shops should build their own ultimate LT1 f-body street car using the very products (of equal comparison including CID) they sell their customers and have it out on PINKS! This would include tear down after the competition just to make sure nothing fishy happened. Winner donates the car to me since it was my fabulous idea.
... or some other worthy cause.

 

Just out of curiosity are there examples of other AI cars besides Ricks, that are achieving very good #'s (such as over 450hp on a 355 or smaller CI motor and 1/4 miles in the very low 11's/high 10's).

I notice all this arguing was based on the potential of (really) 1 car. I'd call that NOT a fluke, but a very concerted effort to build a very competitive car by people who know what they are doing. I'd say a good percentage of people who buy heads/cam in general don't do their own work, and have no idea what it takes to build a car like Ricks. I just purchased a H/C/I combo from one of said builders... I have to plans to go anywhere near 9's. If I am in the mid 11's I'll be ecstatic, so either way (AI/LE) will that make the builder look bad if I don't run low 10's?

I'm in medicine and when a clinical trial is done we analyze the data via statistical analysis. We want to know what happens over the range of patients. We try to study thousands of patients, not 10's of patients..there are too many variables, outliers that can skew the #'s for or against, if we just looked at a few #'s a drug would never get approved OR a very unsafe one would get approved because the #'s were wrong.

I can understand when you hear about a certain builder over and over again you get aggravated, but seriously, you can't compare a 9sec professionally built car to another that ran 12's (of which we have no idea how it was built, tuned, state of the shortblock, complementary parts, tires, track it ran on etc). Throw up mass #'s of dynos or times from a bunch of cars and compare ALL #'s.

 

although the "build your own car" idea was nice it would be like any other build up and come down to cubic dollars and how fast can you afford to go. Being married with 2 kids (one in college), you can probably guess about as fast as I could make my car, LOL.

I will agree that Ricks car is a rocket as EVERYONE agrees but isn't the average AI 190 cc heads and cam in a 3600 lb car with 1.6x 60 ft running mid 11's also? Why aren't these people asking why their car is 1.5 seconds slower than Ricks since the only difference is a slightly more aggressive cam?

Based on your argument and Ricks 9.90 car being typical, I guess the average AI 190 cc headed, 3600 lb car with slightly milder cam should be in the mid 10's and the average 4200 B Body should be in the high 10's with the extra weight and having to use an even slightly milder cam than that.

From what I have seen, these mid/high 10 second ET's are not typical and the mid 11 (F body) to mid 12 second (B Body) ET's are more typical for these set ups.

Anyone that doesn't twist words and stretch the facts to their agenda (as mentioned earlier) will understand this and figure it out for themsleves. Anyone believeing otherwise will need to remove their blinders, drop their pom-poms and try to wipe the brown ring from around their necks before they are ever gonna figure it out.

 

With as many orders you get from all the sites that adore you I figured you'd have that LT1 car you were posting about completed by now
What happened to that idea? Taking a customers head that had been sent back to you and running on your own car.....
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=449497

 

If one will read the AI website they are upfront about this, the very first thing on the site about this:
{quote=Ai’s Site]Here's a rundown of the modifications on Rick's bolt-on 94 Trans-Am. It's a fantastic example of what a highly efficient topend is capable of in a properly set up car. The only "trick" here is a competent and competitive driver willing to put in the necessary seat-time to dial-in the combination detailed below. To be 100% clear, performance like this is duplicable, but don't expect to throw the parts on your car and run these numbers right off the trailer. Again, this example is put forth to verify that the potential of our LT1 Production Casting based offerings is second to none. Any setup, from street to full race, will take significant time on the track to reach it's potential![/quote]

 

This whole time I've been reading this thread wondering. I've not seen any examples of any other Ai cars that are putting down some type of extreme #'s that would justify all of 525 ss 96's comments.. ....

I've trapped 114 and cracked 11's with my setup so far and I'm happy... the tranny was slipping, weak 3.73's out back, *first* pass out, mail order tune with no tweaking whatsoever... IMO after a dyno tune, gears, etc, the car should be a 120 mph street car.

 

I continually find it hard to believe that people on this forum can’t accept the fact that someone besides the shop that they do business with is capable of doing quality work. Grow up, gives props where they are due, quit hating and bickering like little girls. Also, here’s a news flash…Ai and LE aren’t the only ones capable of doing quality LTx heads.

 

OMG, lol

 

How did my poor car get dragged into this lol O well let me work out the bugs. Im hoping after Sat ill have a very clear understanding of how the engine is running, and were im missing power. although if I dont see some gains I may need a shoulder to cry on. haha . As far as putting AI heads on my car, I would do it. If I got to keep the heads!

Now back on topic-

Ricks car is f'in fast!!!, hands down.