Why would you say that? I haven't seen any of LE's stuff running 9s or anywhere close with a similar set up.

 

I don't see ANY OTHER AI cars running that fast either

Exactly my point (BTW Clint I enjoyed the article in Gm high tech of your 355, LE heads running high 9's with a HR in basically a Street car, good stuff)

 

they had that 355 with a snail running 9.7 at 15x? how that?

And it's a Daily driver.. speaking of "basically street cars.

 

Sorry I don't understand what your saying

 

355 is the displacement of the engine.

snail is slang for a turbo.

I was commenting on your poweradder power'd 9 LE. he ran 11's NA at over 17mph slower than rick... how does that compare?.

more over.. i see you have LE's stuff.
what does your car run? What does everyone run that's trying to dismiss rick's setup?

 

I was commenting on your poweradder power'd 9 LE. he ran 11's NA at over 17mph slower than rick... how does that compare?.
I wasn't comparing the too cars, I was just giving a congrats to clint.

Funny thing is Ai H/C/I cars run the same as LE H/C/I cars like I stated earlier.

But talking about clint's car I will say that it is faster than any AI cars with the same mods. 11.1 et with a cc306 it would be even faster with an LE2 cam, and the car is not exactly light from what I remember. A good cold night that would be a 355 running 10's on motor with a Few suspension mods, and a 10 year old HR cam profile not bad in my opinion.
The fastest AI car I have seen was Russ Ethridges H/C/I car that ran 11.3.-4.s through a 6-speed ripping gears (dude can drive) cutting a nice 60 foot. The same guy driving shon Herron's bolt-on car since he can't drive it apparently . No pun intended really to anyone just stating fact
Ai cars are a lot like Le cars can't go wrong with either one of their heads, but I would have Bret grind me a cam over AI anyday, I have seen both of their grinds and I am a fan of Bret's grinds, to each their own though.

 

You said yourself; street heads/cam cars.
What about this one that isnt lightened?


I think this is the Russ guy youre talking about?


It would seem like there are at least 10x as many active people on here with LE stuff, & I've been lurking awhile and don't see a proportional number of LE powered cars running quicker than the Ai stuff. As a matter of fact, and I DO realize many people have problems with their setup, there are a very disconcerting number of LE cars that frankly, run slow (ET and Trap) for the dyno numbers I see being claimed. I think that is why people shouldn't buy a dyno number. I have seen it with my LS car & decided to buy mph which I think of as potential ET.

I don't want to hurt anyones feelings, but as a prospective customer of both doing research this is what I have noticed. It doesnt help that the "LE Mafia" seems to try to discount everyone else. I don't see lloyd himself doing it, so why not take a que from him and no matter who I choose I dont think the other will shut down. I'm certain that whether anyone buys from either shop, they will be satisfied. I don't blame many of the Ai customers for not wanting to get involved and have their setups picked apart. It just makes no sense that the LE customers (Not lloyd himself) seem to always ruin threads with this LE vs. the world BS. Why can't we just compare SIMILAR cars and let the numbers fall where they may? ricks car is obviously setup pretty well, though I think the trap speed is still high for a high 9. So what about the mph? To me that is what is really surprising, I havent read about anyone with an LT1 or LT4 intake running mph like that.

 

Steve Quinn is the only othe rguy that I have seen with a similiar mods MPH like that. 370ci Ported Lt1 heads, and highly modded Lt1 intake (called it the LTX intake cut open and worked on) SR cam, etc trapped 138 mph on motor with a 9.7 I believe.

To be honest I really think what it comes down to is LE is cheaper and most people who are not trying to maximize a optimum combo go with LE.
For instance latley I have seen Le2 h/c cars with shorty headers no weight reduction, on street tires run low 12's. That same car with some changes could easily go 11.5's with a good 60 foot, better exhaust, lighter car, etc.

Most guys who spend more money tend to care about maximizing the combo, which Ai customers tend to want to do. 3200 lb race weight, full suspension, all supporting mods and a great running car to put the power to the ground. Its easy to build a Motor getting the chasis to use it is the hard part.
Take Shon Herron's car for instance 7.50 in the 1/8 and 11.7-8 in the 1/4 with a Bolt-on LT1. Throw on a nice 383 with a great pair of heads and intake and thing will go 10's on motor.

After saying all of that, the only true way to compare Ai, LE or anyone elses H/C/I setups is to have the same identical car. To many things influence the outcome, Gears, weight, exhaust, tunning, weather, 60 ft, etc

 

Well my comment was about the LT1 / LT4 intake. Quinn is running a VERY expensive intake where as Rick has a $400 off the shelf part. and i thought the LT1 intake was a major restriction, what would ricks car do with that out of the way?
Also i believe rick has about 400lbs more than quinns. So many "would/coulds". Fun

anyways.
So you're saying people who know what it takes to go fast choose Ai, and people who are forced to be more budget conscious choose LE. seems like if you're willing to pay a minor price difference, especially if that IS the case, that ai can help their customers get their cars down the track. Sounds about right from my obersvations.

 

Geeze..I'm so glad I'm not involved in all this crap.

this is a well thought out car thats working and he got there by lots and lots of work im sure. Congrats to all involved. The rest of the lt1 guys need to be glad there are still people willing to put the effort in racing a lt1. Its people(or customers if you want to put it that way) that are willing to go outside the box that the venders learn what works and what doesnt and they use that information to produce a better product for the masses. I say way to go guys.

 

Man i knew that this thread would eventually end up heading in this direction. Thats kinda why i made a quick post early on to compliment on the results of this setup, before all the bs started. It is impressive to go sub 10 seconds on ported stock LT1 castings in anything more then a go cart. Bottom Line.

Im very satisfied with my LE setup. Im confident that Lloyd's portwork is on par with AI's. I cant imagine anyone porting as many heads by hand as Lloyd and not getting pretty damn good at it. Furthermore I have had conversations with Lloyd that suggest that the guy actually knows what hes doing, and probably is good at what he does for more reasons then just repetition. I feel i spent less money and got a comparable product to ANYONE that bothers porting factory LT1 castings.

IMO the dollars spent are the big factor when making the decision on which porter to go with. Its because of this now that you have the penny pinchers that tend to go with Lloyds products, and its this penny pinching that results in the lack of sub 10 second drag cars with LE heads. Perhaps its Lloyd's lower prices that are his doom (not suggesting to raise prices Lloyd ;-). The level of commitment that it takes to go sub 10's NA in a full bodied car is just not present in Lloyd's client base so far. Most these guys are just looking for the best bang for the buck, and are no where close to building a dedicated track car.

I think what we have in Rick's case is just that. Commitment. He's commited to building a race car, that goes quickly in a straight line. Im sure when he makes his product purchasing decisions some things that are not in his mind are "will this be streetable?", "will i still be able to corner well with this?", "will this still get me decent fuel economy?" hell no he isnt thinking that. He's probably thinking "is this **** gonna get me down the 1320 quicker?". Leave it up to the Lloyd elliot customers to think about the streetability, fuel economy, and price.

So for all you die hard Lloyd Elliot fans out there that defend him and
Bret to the bitter end, and talk **** up a storm in their favor, please do the gentlemen a favor and commit! Stop building these weak *** compromise cars, and build a damn race car already! A no compromise, no bs, track only race car with a nice shiny set of Lloyd Elliot cylinder heads on top. In this will be the biggest defense and the largest compliment to them both. Sorry it wont be me because my car is a road course car....

Now in the mean time. Rick you have a bad *** car, and i envy your commitment and skill.

Bunch of bickering crybabies i swear man. And i usually just lurk these threads in discust, but this time i had to say something because its just so predictable.

Steve

 

That's kind of a blanket statement. I thought about the same things when I went with my AI 190 cam and head package. I realized that the level of skill and quantity/quality of the machine work is a real bargin. If you look closely at the materials used you'll see what is a deal and what is not. I think that the penny pinching in the short term leads to overall higher costs by doing things 2 and 3X. Perhaps some of you guys should consider that.

blackz97- I was reading your signature and noticed our engine setups are very similar. Are you in the 11's?

 

Wow that car seems really impressive!

I am soo glad I was into the S/C -forced induction and never got into the N/A debates.

 

Where the HELL have you been???!!!!
PM a brotha! I've got to tell you what's happening with my plans that are AI certified, "... can't be done..."


I did forget to add AI didn't even believe THEIR $3000+ custom ported AFR 210 heads would work for a N/A 10 sec. pass and this was less than a year ago.

 

No honestly my track times are nothing to brag about, but ive made >5 passes with the new setup. Just havent had the time or money to play anymore with the car. 40+ hours a work week and 11 units in college leave little or no time to do anything that I want to do. I kinda have to move 1 summer at a time with my project.

Hopefully this coming summer ill be able to get a 12 bolt so i can put her on some tire.

Steve