LTx
LSx
2.2L Turbo Mopar's
2.0L Turbo Mitsu (Eclipse,EVO)
4.3L Chebby

 

While we're on the subject of 305's....what about the L-69.

When 5.0 Mustangs were literally eating F-bodies in '82 and '83, the closet hotrodders at GM, slid an L-83 cam, free flow exhaust and dual snorkel H.O. air cleaner on a 305 (5 speed and 3.73 gears didn't hurt either)....and voila....instant street parity.


I was gonna mention that. But I knew better than to do it here, if you know what I mean.

 

You are a real work you know that? I have had a number of F-bodies, 2 Second Gens (one being my formula that has a 70 GTO 400 in it), a third (I-ROC-Z L98), and two Fouth Gens.

I had the IROC for the shortest amount of time because it was a pile of crap. I am to young to have owned one new, so I am left with used car...and this one I have was your average IROC...leaky T-tops, rear hatch didn't align right, driverside seat was tearing, I could watch the dash pad vibrate, and the headliner was coming loose.

Granted my car wan't a great example, but there aren't very many left that are...which is why everyone complains about how ****ty they are. The cars were not put togethor well, and it shows today in how they have held up. The L98 had great lowend torque, but the party stopped there...this combined with the awesome suspension (I will admit that) that the IROC's had made them great autocrossers....but anything at high RPM's the engine runs outta breath. The 3.42 geared cars were notorious for eating transmissions also. RP will tell you, of all the generations..Chevy had the most problems quality wise with teh third gen.

As for the 305, I hate to tell you all, but any Chevy 305 is nothing but a steaming pile of ape dung...that simple. They are gutless and get horrible gasmilage to boot. Again, the L98 would have never been in the Camaro had it not been for the 305 being a non-contender. Whenever a third gen owner who has a 305 starts talking about modding the first thing outta someone's mouth is "Why don't you drop a 350 in".

Eitherway..I will take on any stock 305 powered car in my Camaro anytime

It's funny how Chevy used to always mention how the 3800 was as fast as many of the Camaro's past top of the line V8's....wonder what engine they meant?


Arguing a 3rd gen is better than a 4th gen is like arguing that a P-51 Mustang is a better fighter than a F-22 Raptor.

They both were good in thier day, but development makes the newer model inherently superior.

 

Nooooo, its more like each Gen has its own advantages and disadvantages. Quality-wise the early Third Gens were problematic, that started clearing around 84 and kept getting better through the years. But that was the 1st few years and thats expected, they made mistakes and then took care of them later on. The only exception for the later cars is that sometimes lousy Van Nuys paint, but thats paint and doesn't hinder anything else. The IROC you had is not a good example, the cars hold up excellent, I know this for a fact. I can't take it when people that aren't in the Third Gen crowd get these kinda impressions. People beat on them, some1 buys 1 that was and thinks that they are all like that or can't be good even if cared for. That is completely incorrect and I've proven so many wrong. There are many left in great condition and are going for high prices already. (and I obviously don't like it) I know because I have been looking for a specific IROC for a few years but they are always either too far away from me or don't have T-Tops or something that I want. People have them stored away in their garages and ain't selling, in my own town there are a few with less than 10,000 miles on them or just over that. When GM in their great wisdom made that statement it was obviously for sales or directed at 305's and not the proven 350. (although some 305's were pretty good but I know they weren't originally intended for real performance) With new technology, it can be true, V6's are now faster than some 1st, 2nd, and Third Gen V8's. But that is also to be expected. Not that there aren't high mile Thirds that run great because I know there are, but I always tell any disbelievers, if you really wanna see how good Third Gens are, buy an 87-92 L98 G92 or LB9 M5 G92 with low miles that has been taken care of and they will have a completely new outlook. My friend did it and now has an incredible car and likes it the best of all his cars which include an 84 Z28, (highly modded) an 02 35th SS, and now a mint stock (besides 3" Borla exhaust and K&N's) 92 Z28 350 TPI G92 with 33,000 original. (which I found for him) Both of his Thirds feel just as tight and if not better in some ways than the 4th, he doesn't even drive the 35th anymore really. And even if it is slower that 92 definetly has better low-mid RPM pull than an LS1 or LT1 from the TPI's TQ. And he does get good gas mileage if he drives right. I know of a dude on TGO that gets 30MPG highway with a stock daily driven L98 with just PROM work. People should not underestimate, and give that engine the credit that it deserves.

 

Dear Lord.

I will say my 1989 Camaro RS 5.0 Automatic was a pretty good car. I owned it for 4 years, and bought it with about 18,000 miles on the clock back in 1990... I drove it to 99,500 miles.

While it was a decent car, the dash board bounced up and down like it was attached to springs, the motor had next to no power for being a V8, but I take that with a grain of salt considering performance at the time.

Add to that horrible paint quality... I had to fight GM for a free re-paint, because the whole car got little white 'stars' in it from breaking down.


Let's list some more things out:

- The interior arms rest pads peeled away from their frame at the bottom. I bought brand new ones... they did the same thing.

- The wheel center caps fade from black to a faded gray. The stickers in the middle fall off. And they have to be the most stolen piece on the car... Oh yeah, they were like $79.00 to replace!

- At about 60,000 miles, the car started blowing blue smoke out the tailpipes... had to get that repaired.

- The T-Tops leaked EVERY TIME it rained.

I could go on and on and on... but this is old hat with you. I liked my third gen inspite of it's issues... but saying anything and everything that is associated with the third gen is the 'Best Evar ' is childish, short sighted, and just plain ignorant.

 

This is becoming an interesting thread.

 

Figured I'd throw in my 2 cents on this 5.0 Mustang vs Camaro duscussion turn.

From personal experience, though I never ran my 85 SSP Stang against a newer 350 Camaro, I can tell you it simply walked away from every other 80s Camaro I ever ran against. Also, the L98 with automatic wasn't very much quicker than the 305 5 speed.

Seems Chevy gave up trying to compete with Mustang's 5.0 with the 305, and brought back the 350. As was pointed out, it became a driver's race, but the Mustang driver still had better fuel economy, a manual transmission, and nothing more than a set of underdrive pulleys, K&N filter, and a slight change of timing is all it took to tilt things back to the Mustang's favor.

As for the LX sedan vs the GT, the difference in performance was pretty notable, as much as half a second 0-60 (more with a convertible or an automatic).

One last thing. Doing an acceleration run, at least in an LX coupe, was a more memorable experience than in a 4th gen Camaro. Not that it was faster, but the car is so light and slightly nose heavy, it vibrates so violently you feel as if you are launching in a rocket. I loved shifting into 2nd still spinning tire!

 

Did I say that Foo?! () You ever think of fixing those things wrong with it?? Ever think of tightening the dash screws?? I wonder why my 133,000 mile dash doesn't do that?? I wonder why my T-Tops don't leak?? New seals maybe!! Not every car had/has the same problems. I mean that dudes 84 I mentioned is still running the stock seals and it does not leak. RS's (I know) and the 305 TBI were meant to be slow. All you have to do is check out the heads and cam to see that. The arm rests all did that 88-92 when left in heat because of a lousy glue that they switched to. 82-87 cars do not have that BS. There is things you can also say about 4th Gens too you know. They have some of the same things as Third Gens do and things Thirds didn't have.

 

I agree the 4th gen had it's share of problems as well... I fully admit that and never said it did not... but I don't thinkor say the 4th Gen was the best of everything either.

As for tightening dash screws, etc... why should I have to ? How many cars owner's manual list 'dash screw tightening' as a scheduled 50,000 maintenence?!?!?

I even had the car in for this under warraty several times. One of the center vents would always move itself to blow the air at the roof after going over any sort of bumps too... veryy annoying... even the dealer could never get it fixed. They said, "ya, they all kind of do that"... I didnt believe them... drove a new 1991 RS off the lot, and watched the dash board bounce up and down.

T-Tops? I have owned ione, and known many people who have owned 3rd gens, and have yet to fidn one that doesn;t leak... 4th gen T-Tops are sooooooooooooooo much better... there is no sense in even thinking about argueing that.

Look, I'd love to own a nice, low milage , stock IROC-Z or something... love the car... but you have to put it in a realistic light as far as buidl quality and performance.

 

Dude, I don't know where the whole quality thing comes from. (especially in a post about engines) It was a new Gen on the same chassis that was already used for 10 years or so, you expect the quality to be better, at least it should be. Both cars, just like everything else, have their own advantages and disadvantages.

 

OK, I may have gotten off topic with the quality issues, etc...

I have an objective way (IMO) to evaluate the L98 vs the LT1 though.

Look at 1991 L98 Corvette numbers vs. 1992 LT1 Corvette numbers.

Same car, different engine...

 

The 3rd gen didn't hold up well over time. Every third gen I have been in had the bouncing dash pad...and no you shouldn't have to tighten and fix everything. Seems like long as I can remember 3rd gens have had problems with oxidized paint...yet the even the 93-94 4th gens I see still generally looks good.

The Third Gen may have been okay in it's time (looks wise it was best, but performance wise give me a 5.0L), but they haven't held up well and the 4th Gen was an improvement in every manner. If you can't agree your wrong.

Even though the interior is the 4th gen Camaro's most lamented flaw it is still light years past the 3rd Gen.

A 4th Gen may occasionally have squeeks and rattle...in a 3rd Gen you wonder what broke when something stops rattling.

4th Gen has a better suspension design that can be tuned to much better levels.

4th Gen is safer

4th Gen T-tops don't leak as much..

Only thing that I will give the 3rd gen is they don't have the CAT hump....least i don't recall.

 

Actually, 3rd Gens do have the cat hump... it's just that it is under the seat.

The 4th Gen's windshield design forced the seats to be moved back further on the structure and exposed the cat hump in the floor, which was a carry over piece from the 3rd Gen...

 

WOW! So 3rd gens rattled!? What's new about that?

You guys really go all out to pick on IZ28 because he has a bias toward 3rd gens....so what. Aren't we here to freely exchange thoughts and opinions on Camaros. If you ask me...it looks like some of you guys ( and you know who you are) have a 4th gen Mafia going.


When you say any 305..I'm assuming you mean from a 3rd gen. They weren't all rated at 140 hp. Mine was rated at 230 hp.

I've driven dozens of TPI Camaros....I've also driven 3800 4th gens. The 3800 is a nice package...but let's not get carried away.

Your Y87 would probably be faster than an LG4/L03 RS but would be hard pressed to keep up with even the slowest 305 TPI IROC........

The faster TPI's would eat you alive.

 

Maybe I should make my stance on the 3rd Gen clear, because it always sounds like I am 'aganst the 3rd Gen'..

Well, I love the 3rd gen. It was my first 'real' car, I lived with it a long time... I loved it, faults and all.

The reason I argue on some issues, is because I feel a lot of the stuff said about it, particularly by IZ28, is just false.... much like I've called with Branden on occasion.

I have nothing against either one of these guys... I generally like them, I have no reason not too, but at the same time... I guess I just get real worked up to real stuff that is just not true. I mean no personal attack on them... if it ever sounds that way, anyway. I think I get Branden more worked up when I get after him on stuff than IZ28 anyway... IZ28 always plays it a bit tounge-in-cheek anyway, it seems, when we get going!


For the record, as far as king of the hill 3rd gen drivetrains go... I always wanted a 305 TPI vs the 350 TPI because you could get the 5-speed with it... and from most of the things I've read, a properly driven 305TPI would outrun the 350TPI auto.