You think that

 

You are hillarious!! Not only do I think it.....I know it.

 

Why don't you guys just drag and be done with it already! LOL

 

If it's any consolation IZ28, every 4th gen Camaro is really just an improved 3rd gen.

 

Wow did I ever start a flame war here! Sorry guys!

I have also said that I owned an '86 Camaro, and I loved the car despite its many problems. When I sold it in 1998 it was in considerably worse shape than my '94 is in now....and YES, I take pristine care of my cars ok? I had headliner-droopiness problems, dashboard cracking/bouncing problems, peeling paint on the front fascia problems....but I refuse to say bad words about the car.

I REALLY LIKE 3rd GENS, OK?

Now that is out of the way, I was joking on IZ28 because even the most die-hard Camaro guy can't sit there in clear conscience and claim that the L98 was the best motor of the last 15 years, that the 3rd Gen Camaro interior was "the best" car interior ever, and that the 3rd Gen Camaro's exterior styling was the best ever....c'mon now, if that were the case why didn't everyone on planet earth drive a Camaro in the 80's? It was obviously the best car ever, right?

No Z284, there is no "4th Gen Mafia" here...I like my 4th Gen, but I've never been afraid to admit its problems and its mistakes.

One other thing. Even a slappy behind the wheel of an auto LS1 should have no trouble eating a stock L98 for breakfast at any distance, off any speed. L98 had a lot of torque for its day but really, my friend's stock 2001 LS1 puts out more torque to the wheels than the L98 was rated at the crank....you do the math.

 

Absolutely!

TPI was a quantum leap beyond what we had at the time.....the LS1 is a quantum leap beyond that.

 

230 HP 5.0L was over rated horsepower wise...

 

OH REALLY? What makes you say that? If anything, GM is known for the opposite of over rating it's power claims.

When you buy your 2010 V6 Camaro, will you be saying it's faster than an LS1, because GM over rated them??


You'd better stop now, the is getting abit deep.

 

the 305 is overrated...I never said a thing about an LS1. If you lived closer I would race you faster than a 3rd Gen hood oxidizing

And my next car is a GTO or Grand Prix

 

The only engines GM has ever Underrated to my knowledge are the original 302 Z28 motor, the Buick 3.8Turbo, and the LS1/LS6. The rest have been more or less right on since the introduction of SAE net HP measurements in the early 1970s.

I've owned both an LG4 powered '85 Camaro and a 305TPI '88 IROC and they were both slow as dog crap compared to today's cars, but I LOVED them. I am not, however, blindly loyal to any one gen to not point out their flaws. The 4th gen is an improvement over the 3rd just like the LS1 is superior to the LT1 simply because of improvements over time, advances in technology, etc.

The L98 was a great motor in its day but it is totally laughable to suggest it was the best motor of the last 15 yrs (which by implication means it is the best motor ever). In all actuality the L98 was nothing more than an induction/injection system fitted to the standard Gen 1 Small Block. Strip off the intake, runners and injectors and its just like any other 350 out there.

I seem to be one of the rare guys here that has owned both 3rd and 4th gens, and both Camaro's and Firebirds. I have no greater loyalties to any gen over another or either name over the other. Really, to me, it is the same car, just in a different trim package.

I just love these cars. Please, GM, do us proud and bring back the Camaro and make it the class leader. And if we have the good fortune to get a new 'bird too, then that is all the better, but I know that's a longshot!

 

Actually I think that the 305 is severely underrated in it's capabilities. Did you ever notice that the 305's bore/stroke ratio is identical to the LS1's? GM powertrain noticed. Sure, if GM would have given me a choice...I would have ordered a 350 with my 5 speed...but I didn't have that option. The 305, however, is a very durable, efficient piece and responds extremely well to any hot rodding techniques....it is after all a small block Chevy.

I have high praise for your 3800 too....but puleazzzze don't be ridiculous.

And forget about racing me.....worry about out running all those fast four bangers out there.

 

They may share bore/stroke RATIO, but the 305's tiny 3.74 stroke lends to lots of problems.

First is valve shrouding, you simply cannot put very big of a valve in the heads otherwise you shroud the valve and cut flow down a bunch. It will flow great on a bench but on the car is another issue.

Plus the 305, since it inception, has suffered from mystery detonation. They have never been able to tolerate as much spark advance as the 350 and GM never figured out why.

the 305 was a good torque motor for MPG and emissions considerations, but considering the 350 costs the same to build, has a better bore for larger valves (= more airflow = more power potential), there is no reason to retain the 305 unless its to keep a car original.

The 305 was GM's attempt to keep a V8 alive in an era of emissions and MPG controls. They never did find a way to make the big power with that engine, so they stepped back up to the 350 block. I consider the 305 a "stop gap" solution at best.

Is that saying you cannot make a decent engine out of it? No, there are lots of examples of good running 305s, but dollar for dollar you will get more HP out of a 350.

And lets not even get started on the pathetic combination of the 305 block and TBI injection. Those swirl port heads were possibly the worst OEM solution to building a tq curve that I've ever seen.

 

Hey, believe me, I'd take a 350 over a 305 if I had a choice.

But the 305 isn't as bad as all that. True, it's 3.74" bore doesn't allow huge 2.02 " intake valves....but it does pretty good with 1.94s. It's 3.48" stroke is the same as a 350.

As far as initial timing goes...I was always under the impression that the 305's smaller bore allowed more initial advance. As was explained to me.....the shorter distance that the flame propogation travels, allows more advanced intiial timing with less detonation and better emissions.

I think Hot Rod magazine debunked the 305 myth afew years ago. They built up identical 305 and 350 smallblocks, the 350 put out more power and torque than the 305.....the 305 however, put out more power per cubic inch.

 

LOL, there is alot of BS in here now. I feel many of you don't know whats up because you are not in the Third Gen crowd or either aren't any more. I've had experience with many through friends and honestly, they are probably some of the most reliable cars out there. The 80's has this rep to some of not being that way, but people forget quick that this is the same time and company that made a car that is still thought today as indestructible, the B-Body. There is litereally tons of Third Gens and B-Bodies still running today and most I see of both here still look great, I think that is a example of how good they were actually built. Maybe I should have been more clear. I didn't say that the L98 was the best engine in the past however many years, I meant it was 1 of them, and it was. Of course the LT's and LS's should be on there too no doubt. (I don't know if the turbo 3.8 has been mentioned yet but it should be listed too) All it takes is some common sense to cure any of the Thirds problems and the same goes for the 4ths'.

 

Actually, I thought that the "my X gen better than your Y gen" crap got really frickin' lame - I'm really hoping that our next topic of discussion is the 1st- and 2nd-gen Diamond Star cars vs. the 3rd-gen Eclipse

Props to Chris 96 WS6 for cutting through the BS and putting the 305 and the 5.0 in their appropriate places. The single biggest parameter to consider when trying to make horsepower is bore area, and quite frankly the 5.0 L puts a big pimpslap on the 305. That's why the 5.0 L is so responsive to mods, like decent cylinder heads (flow numbers on stock 5.0 L heads make me cry, almost as badly as the flow numbers on 4.6 L heads).