What happened to the Ste. Therese story
03-04-2004, 09:57 AM
#1
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What happened to the Ste. Therese story
OK guys.
I wasn't abducted by aliens (or "martians"
), I'm not being held prisoner at GM's Tech Center, and no, noone made me an offer I couldn't refuse. The truth here, unfortunately, is alot less glamorous. 
First, I didn't post yesterday because of a major issue at work I had to hack through, so I didn't get much of a chance to get to the internet.
Second, what happened to my thread?
I deleted it myself.
Why?
As all of you correctly gathered, the info I posted was dead accurate in virtually every aspect. Very VERY accurate, in fact. So accurate that GM security started looking around for leaks (they must not have actually clicked on the links I included in the thread).
Certain people got questioned (who had nothing to do with the post) and I decided to pull the thread to keep my informants (and friends) off the hook. That's all.
I will probally repost certain items from that post again (ie: the history of the plant closing that leaves no question as to where the info came from). But I'm going to unfortunately have to leave some of the items off. It seems there are some things at GM that although public information & available to certain stockholders, union management, and anyone who has an afternoon to blow tracking down news articles, is still very sensitive.
I will say a few things that will put some of this into perspective:
1. The politics involved was enough to make GMPD Boss Mark Reuss, and GM Chairman of Products & GM's European arm Bob Lutz backtrack on their statements on Camaro. Not because of some dark threat, but to leave open the chance to use the Camaro name in the future.
2. Though it's "possible" GM is working on a car that COULD be named Camaro & will "possibily" be out well before the decade's over, though GM owns the rights to the name, it WON'T use the name if it's going to ruffle feathers and become a sticking point with certain people.
3. The Ste. Therese plant's demolition has been blocked many times the past year (if you read the post before I dropped it, you know why).
There are people devoted to the Camaro "name" who will, if possible, bring it back. Trying to explain what happened at Ste. Therese with Camaro without jepordizing the use of the name in a future (or near future) car is like stepping through a minefield. Certain people are screamish about it. Enough so that they can convince a GM Chairman to backtrack. And since I value the name (and the people I talk to who may or may not have something to do with it) I've chosen to backtrack too.
The future car isn't the issue, but the name.
So now, everyone who read that thread knows what happened & what is going on. I've stored the entire list of links which I'll post in another thread later.
I wasn't abducted by aliens (or "martians"
), I'm not being held prisoner at GM's Tech Center, and no, noone made me an offer I couldn't refuse. The truth here, unfortunately, is alot less glamorous. First, I didn't post yesterday because of a major issue at work I had to hack through, so I didn't get much of a chance to get to the internet.
Second, what happened to my thread?
I deleted it myself.
Why?
As all of you correctly gathered, the info I posted was dead accurate in virtually every aspect. Very VERY accurate, in fact. So accurate that GM security started looking around for leaks (they must not have actually clicked on the links I included in the thread).
Certain people got questioned (who had nothing to do with the post) and I decided to pull the thread to keep my informants (and friends) off the hook. That's all.
I will probally repost certain items from that post again (ie: the history of the plant closing that leaves no question as to where the info came from). But I'm going to unfortunately have to leave some of the items off. It seems there are some things at GM that although public information & available to certain stockholders, union management, and anyone who has an afternoon to blow tracking down news articles, is still very sensitive.
I will say a few things that will put some of this into perspective:
1. The politics involved was enough to make GMPD Boss Mark Reuss, and GM Chairman of Products & GM's European arm Bob Lutz backtrack on their statements on Camaro. Not because of some dark threat, but to leave open the chance to use the Camaro name in the future.
2. Though it's "possible"
GM is working on a car that COULD be named Camaro & will "possibily" be out well before the decade's over, though GM owns the rights to the name, it WON'T use the name if it's going to ruffle feathers and become a sticking point with certain people.3. The Ste. Therese plant's demolition has been blocked many times the past year (if you read the post before I dropped it, you know why).
There are people devoted to the Camaro "name" who will, if possible, bring it back. Trying to explain what happened at Ste. Therese with Camaro without jepordizing the use of the name in a future (or near future) car is like stepping through a minefield. Certain people are screamish about it. Enough so that they can convince a GM Chairman to backtrack. And since I value the name (and the people I talk to who may or may not have something to do with it) I've chosen to backtrack too.
The future car isn't the issue, but the name.
So now, everyone who read that thread knows what happened & what is going on. I've stored the entire list of links which I'll post in another thread later.
Last edited by guionM; 03-04-2004 at 10:05 AM.
03-04-2004, 10:04 AM
#2
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Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 2,282
Understood......good call....glad you didn't have to suffer through any alien **** probes (South Park reference for those who have grown up)
Does this have anything to do with what you're saying?
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...hreadid=232574
(South Park reference for those who have grown up)Does this have anything to do with what you're saying?
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...hreadid=232574
03-04-2004, 10:13 AM
#3
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: The Golden State
Posts: 13,711
Originally posted by Doug Harden
Understood......good call....glad you didn't have to suffer through any alien **** probes (South Park reference for those who have grown up)
Does this have anything to do with what you're saying?
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...hreadid=232574
Understood......good call....glad you didn't have to suffer through any alien **** probes
(South Park reference for those who have grown up)Does this have anything to do with what you're saying?
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...hreadid=232574
And whoever left that brown paperbag with 160 cartons of cigarettes and 55 gallons of Iced Tea........ thanks!
Last edited by guionM; 03-04-2004 at 10:18 AM.
03-04-2004, 10:37 AM
#4
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Oakland, California
Posts: 9,710
"Blame Canada, blame Canada..."
Glad to hear you're ok guionM. Fortunately for me, I was able to read the thread before it was taken down.
However is anyone really surprised that security types (i.e. lawyers) are so quick to jump on people, when what they are protecting is already out there as public information?
I guess the real information around here will disappear if we can no longer discuss the C-word in a public forum.
Glad to hear you're ok guionM. Fortunately for me, I was able to read the thread before it was taken down.However is anyone really surprised that security types (i.e. lawyers) are so quick to jump on people, when what they are protecting is already out there as public information?
I guess the real information around here will disappear if we can no longer discuss the C-word in a public forum.
03-04-2004, 10:59 AM
#7
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Miami, Fl USA
Posts: 499
Originally posted by uluz28
Would the whole naming thing be a lot easier for GM if the Ste. Therese plant mysteriously burned to the ground?
Would the whole naming thing be a lot easier for GM if the Ste. Therese plant mysteriously burned to the ground?
Expect to be followed by a Black Tahoe with dark tints within the next day or so.
03-04-2004, 11:00 AM
#8
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Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Houston TX
Posts: 315
My input as a loyal GM owner:
Do the execs not see that the "name" Camaro has just as big of a following as the Fbody itself?
Gathered from what your saying, speculation about the usage of the name in the future will anger those who had certain interests in the St. Therese plant.
So what?? IF GM can stand to make a few million producing a car that needs the name "camaro" to sell, who cares who gets mad and who doesnt? Forget the politics and just build cars. I understand thats easier said than done, but maybe some reform is in order.
If you ask me, the automotive industry needs to quit playing spy vs. spy and go back to doing what it does best, and thats building cars. Its rediculous that they are treating public information as if it were government classified, which I assure you , it is not.
rant off, ive got to go to history class.
Do the execs not see that the "name" Camaro has just as big of a following as the Fbody itself?
Gathered from what your saying, speculation about the usage of the name in the future will anger those who had certain interests in the St. Therese plant.
So what?? IF GM can stand to make a few million producing a car that needs the name "camaro" to sell, who cares who gets mad and who doesnt? Forget the politics and just build cars. I understand thats easier said than done, but maybe some reform is in order.
If you ask me, the automotive industry needs to quit playing spy vs. spy and go back to doing what it does best, and thats building cars. Its rediculous that they are treating public information as if it were government classified, which I assure you , it is not.
rant off, ive got to go to history class.
03-04-2004, 11:52 AM
#11
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Location: Oakland, California
Posts: 9,710
Originally posted by Caps94ZODG
GM THE MUSTANG IS LOOKING BETTER EVERY DAY WE COME TO THIS BOARD!!!!
GM THE MUSTANG IS LOOKING BETTER EVERY DAY WE COME TO THIS BOARD!!!!
And how it is! My local Furd dealer stinks compared to my Chevy dealer, but I'm not that brand loyal and I can read the writing on the wall.
03-04-2004, 12:00 PM
#12
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Location: Michigan's left coast
Posts: 2,405
Originally posted by Darth Xed
It' a real shame that the current GM managment and all Camaro fans have to deal with knots tied by the previous regime.
It' a real shame that the current GM managment and all Camaro fans have to deal with knots tied by the previous regime.
I don't see why the "Z28" designation couldn't be used on another vehicle - after all, it's "just" a SPID code. To me, it wouldn't have any appeal if not connected to the Camaro name.
03-04-2004, 12:23 PM
#13
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Location: South Bend, Indiana
Posts: 2,473
Using "Z28" as a name for a car could possibley be a slap in the face of everyone who GMs not trying to slap in the face. They could use "Camaro" as I understand the saga so far, but they won't just so they don't ruffle any feathers...
....I think I'm on the right track here....
....I think I'm on the right track here....
03-04-2004, 12:46 PM
#14
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Posts: 13,711
Ya know...
In 1983, GM had to deal with a name issue. They were paying the owner of the Trans Am series a royalty on each Trans Am for use of the name. GM started to back out of it by calling the performance version of the Trans Am the T/A.
If the name Camaro isn't used, anyone up for a Chevrolet SS?
In 1983, GM had to deal with a name issue. They were paying the owner of the Trans Am series a royalty on each Trans Am for use of the name. GM started to back out of it by calling the performance version of the Trans Am the T/A.
If the name Camaro isn't used, anyone up for a Chevrolet SS?