RN: "Buying import is the same as buying American."

EVERYONE: Numbers which refute this, and rationale for accepting them.

RN: "I didn't say GM wasn't a big company."

Okay, Mr. High School Debate Team Captain, quit changing the subject. If the numbers are bad, where are your numbers?

 

I believe it was actually Ford who recently took a big stack of parts offshore to China recently. http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...014/BUSINESS01

 

I’m not changing the subject…you simply want your numbers to support an assertion that they don’t support.

I did not say “buying an import is the same as buying “American” (if you want to quote me please be more accurate and not put words in my mouth) - I have said that buying a domestically produced vehicle has relatively the same economic impact on the US economy regardless of what nameplate is on it.

Aside from the other points on which I’m sure we disagree is that you apparently see GM (Ford, etc) as “American”…I do not…I once did and they once were, many, many yeas ago but no longer. What they are now are just huge, multi-national corporations with loyalty only to their bottom line.

As such, I do say that buying a Toyota built in the US has relatively the same economic impact on the US as buying a US built GM and that is true regardless of how “big” GM happens to be.

And since it's Friday night and I'm going home, that's were things will have to rest; at least for now.

 

Well, as I said in another thread, so-called "American" companies are falling all over themselves to send jobs offshore, especially to China...Ford may well be the most recent of the Detroit big 2.5 to do so but the line is long; filled with companies from virtually every industry.

 

Well then, I will buy Most-American cars. How's that? lol

 

And everyone like yourself, who buys foreign garbage, only has yourselves to blame for them sending jobs overseas! Evertime you buy foreign cars, more jobs are lost here in our plants. They have had to send some jobs overseas to stay in business. This doesn't erase all the history of an American company. None of US like this, but most understand that it's necessary, to offset the many unfair advantages which they must deal with. Look in the mirror!

 

HMM wonder why they are shipping them overseas??? People have bought into the crap that Toyotas and imports are better!
Like I stated before if GM Ford or DCX had the same profit like Toyota has you think they would be sending anything anywhere??? HELL NO.

Do I think Toyota, Nissan and Honda make fine vehicles..sure as the rising sun. But what people dont understand is the thoughts of 20 years ago are still plauging the U.S. car maker and they cannot get a foothold. WHY? Legacy cost and unfair business practices that OUR GOVERMENT gave to the import companies when they were first starting out..

what he fails to understand is Japan and the U.S. do business totally diffrent.

Shintoism vs. Capitolism.

 

Wonder how many cars are actually built outside of the U.S. for GM???
Anyone know that?

 

hmm wonder why?? Its is people like you that think it has no impact on the industry buying a domestic or import vehicle. Well seeing stuff like what Ford has to do to stay competative Isay YES it does make a diference.

 

WAIT WAIT WAIT..

Robert :

you tell me what an "American" company is??? (some will be the major brand the company is recognized by)


Budweiser?
Sam Adams?
Coke?
Pepsi?
Microsoft?
Major Leauge Baseball?
Hot Wheels?
Parker Brothers?
Mattel?
American Eagle?
LEVIS?
NASCAR?
Marlboro?
Nationl Football Leauge?
Dunkin' Donuts?
MGM?
Disney?
Radio Shack?
MOTTS Apple juice?
Home Depot?
Marvel Comics?
DC Comics?
Wrangler?

What company is an "American" Company???

 

and for the cycle:

It started with % of car parts and such and you say its wrong?
We give proof written by others and you still say its wrong?
I give you fact of how the Japanese do business by Shintoism and not Capitolism and you say its wrong?
We give you facts on how damaging it is buying a domestic over an import and you say were wrong?

While we asked for you to present your case and all you do is rehash something thats already explained but you use it for your defense, change the subject to make your point or ask you whats your tag for this ours is patriotism, or revert the the "American" "offshore" and "no diffrent" quotes.

Now this is where it is fun. What I would like to know what makes you so right about what it is that you say we are wrong about? Whats your criteria? Facts to back it up?
ohh the fun part?? Well guess I can go take some notes fro mthe top. Just got off the phone with one of the guys I work with. See the company I work for we work in Middlesex county here in MA. pretty upscale part of New England and most of the who's who's live around here. Well a long time customer has just given us a Job at his house sometime in the next couple of weeks. Now the thing is I get to bring my notebook,why? This man is exactly who you say is "American" he is a CEO and founder of a very prominet company in the U.S. with ties all over the world. CEO whos worth in the billions. I will ask him what he thinks, he is a blue collar person by heart and loves talking to us about jobs, cars and life. Now you claim to talk about how coperate america is well I will get it right from the mouth. Sure its not going to be for every CEO in America and just my small little chat with him. But I know it will prove something. Will I be right? you? or no one? But the facts are at least I will get it from someone who was at the bottom who took his work ethic to the top.

 

RN, stop changing the subject and hiding behind a wall of words. If our numbers are bad, where are your numbers?

 

I dunno, I think you're going alittle overboard and getting too butthurt over this. I'm sorta on Roberts side on this one.

This is not 1970 and it's not white/black anymore. The world is heading towards a worldwide economy. And we can either be stupid and be protectionists (think USSR) or we can accept the changes and capitalize on it. Nobody said everything's perfect right now. But Jesus you act like GM is the only American company left on the earth.

Honda is building a plant close to where I live; avg pay 25/hour hiring 2000-3000 people. They are building right now. I work in the industrial hydraulic business and we are booming because of it. Construction business is booming because of it. Housing market is booming because of it. SALES in General are booming and standard of living in this area is expected to go up because of the Honda plant. Now you say these companies don't help the economy?

In the town I grew up in there are two major factories. Intat and Fujitsu Ten both Japanese companies and if not for them - our town would be a ghost town. I guess we should just tell them to leave and go back to Japan because we don't want them?

I support GM, I'm a bowtie nut and as long as Chevrolet's are made I will more then likely own one and I am all for American companies. But foreign competition is a GOOD THING. There are some things that need to be Iron'd out like I mentioned above (Overseas Labor and EPA regs for Overseas Industry).

But I bet you 1/2 of the people here that want all manufacturing back here in the USA would be pissed when they have to pay double the price for clothes and toys for their children. There are benefits to cheap manufacturing.

Some people need to crawl out of the 19xx logic. This is not your Grand-Daddy's world anymore.

 

Humm…”foreign garbage”…now there is an intelligent reply…adds so much to the discussion…I’m glad you have such an open mind on this topic.

Jobs are being lost at GM because GM has made some very stupid decisions over the years and have painted themselves into a corner they don’t know how to get out of…they are loosing jobs because of their own short-sightedness and arrogance…they are loosing jobs because for decades they refused to modernize their plants and seek efficiencies. They are loosing jobs because they all but abandoned the car market and decided to concentrate on trucks and SUVs which, for a time, allowed them to ignore their real problems of rising costs and shrinking margins per vehicle.

GM’s problems are so severe and so systemic that even if they owned 90% of the US market they would eventually be, financially, right where they are today…it would just take longer.

No one is erasing GM’s history…it has a great history…the problem is, it’s HISTORY and this isn’t 1950 anymore.

We can all be nostalgic for what GM has been and what is has meant to the US and the middle class but that doesn’t change what they are today; a behemoth multinational corporation with no real loyalty to any country operating out of greed (or desperation) and looking to improve its bottom line.

Tell me, exactly, what specific “unfair advantages” are you talking about?

Recount for me, if you will, what laws any of the transplants don’t have to follow that GM does? What business rules must GM adhere to that Toyota doesn’t? When Honda builds a new manufacturing plant in the US what “unfair advantage” do they get over GM building a new plant?

 

I’m truly in awe of your command of the English language as well as your open mind and willingness to actually engage in debate rather than just throw insults around…quite a breath of fresh air!