If you really want to know why don't you just look it up? Oh...wait...that might let some of fact in...nevermind.

 

Suaveat69 I hope you didn't bet to much, they did thier fair share but not that much more though still at the top though all things tallied. The fact is sometimes the facts are overlooked for smaller more irrelivent fact to make points about.

 

but you know Suaveat69 its the questions that are fact based that are ignored like they dont exist when its presented to them right out in the open.

 

What fact based questions are being ignored and by whom?

 

Now that I'm home and have the work in front of me I can be more specific - the text says...
The textbook book is a compilation of seven different texts originally compiled by Harvard University; and re-published by Pearson Custom Publishing specifically for use in a course entitled "Business Foundations for IT Professionals" as part of an MSIT degree program. However, lest you think this is just one, odd-ball example I have other textbooks from my MBA program that have similar language and I would suggest you’ll find similar sentiments in the textbooks of most upper-level financial management/MBA courses.

You'll note, there is nothing in that statement that indicates that loyalty to the firm’s country of origin is even of equal importance let alone of greater importance than loyalty to the company. It is my opinion, that should the CEO or GM or Ford or any other “American” company choose the interests of the United States over the interests of the shareholders; that CEO will not long be the CEO as the stockholders and as a consequence, the Board of Directors will have his head on a platter.

Since I’m not an accomplished author; I’ll quite some one who is - from Lou Dobbs’ book Exporting America (p52, 53) from the chapter on Globalization when he said…

 

Sorry I did not get back to you and actually just responding very fast before I head out to do some catch up work for my other job. But having a bite and sitting here.
The book you used. As I thought, it is for western "capitolism" way of marketing and business. Japan doesnt take that road, case in point you saidLike I stated before the way they do it is 180 to the way we are taught. Its like if they were teaching you to make a Big Mac at Burger King. Same ideas but very diffrent exicutions.. But I can get back to that at another time.

Two things I was would like to comment about:
Do you not see that happeing now? I have read, heard and seen interviews of head honchos of GM, Ford and what not talking about how they screwed up.Even the shareholders I know are asking WTF to them.. How they were doing catch up for the last 30 years. It was doing fine till the SUV ceiling fell in.Now for the last 5 years GM has been turing around using as what Lutz once said to the effect of : we have to build american cars, not copies of imports. I see that happening now. They are drawing of the roots of what made GM a great company to work for. If that marketing I dont know how? I see it as GM getting back on track, listening to the customers "americans" and building its rep back to the people it lost almost 30 years ago. GM is trying to do what Toyotas been doing for 30 years that they in turn got from GM and other american companies over 30 years ago. Its come full circle sort of IF they can turn it around. GM has to be loyal to this country. Like I stated before they cannot just pull out of the U.S. and survive somewhere else. They may seem to have their own "goverment" but hell if GM falls flat here it would be very devastating to this economy. You think Toyota with its marketing of waving american flags, mom and apple pie are real? over GM? What company stands more to loose? the home team or the one that has a lineup like they do? I do think GM has realize they need to be loyal to us. I think when like stated before the SUV craze fell they realized they were not like Pepsi, or Coke or GE. Coke and Pepsi dont have a major rival like GM and Ford have breathing down your neck. I think the past 5 years you have seen the turnaround and its working. Thats why I think its more than a ploy of shareholders to make it seam like GM has loyalty to this country. I really do think they know if they loose here they are done.

and that leads me to this. I cannot beleive you quoted Lou Dobbs, I love the way that guy thinks. This is the guy that I guess got me on this side of the coin. He is the one I would watch at night and agree what was going wrong with the country. I picked up that book, I moved so I did not read much into it and in a box somewhere in storage but when did this book come out 3-4 years ago? Point is. 3-4 years ago the car companies were not doing the revamping they are now. Heck asking a now Democratic goverment to try and make it a level playing feild for them vs. imports with the legacy cost.. wasnt possible up untill last month, without the Pres. saying "build better cars!" I know I had some stand out quotes from him but damn if I remember them this far out but he made alot of sense. As I assume he did to you. He was for the American middle class, the hard working people that support this country. But just leads me back to this now that I realize I am running late. I have to go so would like to ask...
if your a fan of Dobbs how can you say that buying a Nissan is no diffrent than buying a Chevy? Knowing everything that Dobbs has stated, The way he feels about outsourcing and the increase just to keep competative in the marketplace beacause of Imports beating us at our own game..the problems domestic companies are trying to change, jumping through hoops to overcome in government and the trade laws. That GM and Ford do alot more for our economy than Toyota or Honda. Middle class America who work for these companies that get laid off cause of toyota/ honda making huge gains in sales, furthermore eroding the middle class (shooting ourselves in the foot if you ask me). How can you say that there is no diffrence? GM and Ford closing plants, dealers and laying off workers is helping us? More people out of a job cus you say buying a Nissan is no diffrent that a Chevy? If your saying it from a pure money point of view, you know you might be right, maybee thats your eye on things and you might be great at what you do with your masters, But ground level is where I see it and the other sides way of doing things to say its of no consequence of buying a Nissan or Toyota over a Ford or GM? I would hate to see what this country will look like in 20 years if people dont get a clue and if not anything support something that was founded here.

 

That part at the end, man.... God Bless!

 

Precisley why I wouldn't expect the WMD to be telling Americans of these issues, with the passion that is reserved for GM (the big evil global warmers, with their big evil suv's moohahahamoohahaha), and to a lesser extent Ford. They want Toyota to own the American automotive business, so it's just not BIG NEWS in their view!

 

Caps94ZODG;

The issue Lou Dobbs was referring to didn’t evaporate in the past two years (his book was published in 2004 by the way). In fact, quite the opposite.

All companies, GM included have only accelerated their outsourcing of all sorts of jobs and are doing more and more of their work offshore and buying more and more of their parts from outside the US for one simple reason…it’s cheaper.

GM and Ford and almost every other company in the world are loyal first to the company and its profits. You can call GM “American” all day long and they can wrap themselves in the flag and proclaim themselves “American” and it doesn’t change a thing and it doesn’t matter where someone went to business school…if anything, the eastern model is even more loyal to company than to country. At any rate, I’m talking about western companies and the western model of shareholder value being paramount is precisely the model western companies’ follow.

I’ve no doubt that GM will continue to buy more and more of its parts and even build more and more of its “US” cars outside of the US and they’ll do it for one and only one reason…they can build them for less and therefore, make more profit off of each one it sells. And while there are individual executives at GM who will be saddened at all the tens of thousands of American workers laid-off and out of work, and won't like what it's doing to his "country", it won’t stop them from sending out the pink slips while concurrently hiring employees in China and Canada and Mexico and a dozen other countries where labor is cheap and the rules are few.

GM used to be an American company...it isn't any more and hasn't been for some time. For those who want to continue to belive GM is an "American" company you are welcome to your view but it's more a matter of faith than of fact. I’ve no doubt that if GM closed every plant it had in the US and imported every single car it sold form offshore, there would still be some who would claim that GM is an “American” company and deride anyone who bought a Nissan or a Toyota or a Honda made in the US.

One more thing, I'd much rather buy a Nissan made in Mississippi than a Chevrolet made in Mexico and if you really think bout it, I suspect you would know Lou Dobbs would agree with me.

 

The only thing I can say is I guess we can agree to dissagree??? I could sit back here and fire back what I think about this or that. And the Lou Dobbs agreeing with you? In a small way but I think he would point out it would give GM more leverage to do more outsourcing and just make his point valid.
You have the book. And I wish I could find mine but I am lucky to find thisJust the introduction is where I make my point.:
http://books.google.com/books?vid=IS...BrwHgE#PPP1,M1
after reading that and a few chapters in (since its boxed up), and mostly watching the show maybee I see things a little diffrent. But the thing that I see and you keep saying "American" company as an argument. Toyota and Honda and Nissan are beating us at our own game, making cars here is a marketing ploy, it to get in good graces with us to show how "american" they are. For a funny way to look at it go watch that movie with M. Keaton in it GUNGHO from the 80's. Funny but also alot of truth to that. Not in the marketing but the other fact. You can say that Japanese corperate is loyal to only one thing the corperation. I will continue to say they are loyal to one thing Japan. its instilled in their blood. Kinda like it was when America was doing so well. Its for honor with them its more of a driving force in thier economy than money. Its part of thier religion to do good for the company FOR the country. But like I said I guess bringing all the arguments to bear on this will not change the fact that you think the way you do and I do.

I for one truely beleive and maybee yes have faith that there is some people of power in GM that have loyalty to the U.S. they know its important to survive and be big here. I know they have to do it, take the playbook back from the Japanese. Or as you know it there will be no cars made in America, and far worse..no middle class. Just the working poor and the rich.
And if that means trying to buy anything made in america to help an american company..car part what not then maybee thats all I can have to hope that its still possible to do before it does end is have a little faith.

 

One more comment...

Transplants being here is not a "marketing ploy"

They are here because it is profitable for them to build here, in the US, most of the vehicles they sell here..."marketing" was not the issue.

The transplants have spent tens (perhaps hundreds) of billions of dollars here in the US to build manufacturing facilities here because it made financial sense to do so...the marketing advantage of "being here" was not worth the capital investment. That isn't to say they don't take advantage of the marketing aspect of it - all companies take the marketing advantages that are avilable to them and of course, downplay the ones that aren't an advantage.

Obviously, there is a marketing advantage for Honda to say that "this Accord was built in Ohio". The reverse of that is also true; when GM or Ford put production of a vehicle in Mexico, they do it because it's cheaper to make the vehicle there, BUT you don't see GM or Ford "advertising" the fact that the Chevrolet you are about to buy was built in Mexico or Canada because that is not a "marketing advantage" for them since they proclaim themselves to be "American" companies.

Likewise, you don't hear any company, no matter how "American" they claim to be, advertising the fact that when you call their customer service line you are talking to someone sitting in India!

If you look into it you'll see that changes in US trade policy in the late 70's and eraly 80's is what prompted manufacturers to build here and made if financially worthwhile to do so.

 

wait your telling me its not a marketing ploy? the way Toyota presents itself?
Of course it is, they could of been content with shipping cars here till the cows come home. I read recently that the cost of making a car in Japan and shipping it here was almost the same as building one here the advantage is getting it in our mind that they are american as GM or Ford..But like before they think 10 years down the road, get on the same soil that GM calls home and like you said " there is a marketing advantage for Honda to say that "this Accord was built in Ohio"." Why do they do that? Consumer perception and to get people to think they are buying an american car. I just had a cutomer tell me almost the same thing about her Acura, she thought it was an American car company. Its all public perception. I call it a ploy call it whatever you want. but marketing your cars like they do it makes people think its no diffrent than Ford or GM, like you beleive.

Actually the Camaro has been flying the Canadian flag since it was mentioned it will be built there. GM says it will be built there in one of the best plants GM has for quality. Hell if thats not advertising I dont know what is?
The Trade policy is one thing that I see a big change comming. I remeber GM going to Bush and asking like what a year ago to help. and the reply was something to the effect of "build a better car" Well they have been for a while now, public perception if it changes will determine that fact like it did in the voting booths on Nov 7th. The other is the legacy cost, that I think changes the fact that "hey there is no legacy cost if we outsource", It is not a level playing feild the market favors the import companies in many ways and yes GM Ford and DCX all shot themselves in the foot. But now that the Democrats are listening to the car companies.( not bashing Rep. I am actually Ind. so just saying).maybee things will change. level the feild I really think you will see outsourcing as it is a bad thing and maybee it wont start with GM but companies will start building here why? the goverment will help them make sure the cost of making it here is cheaper than overseas. It can be done. But anyways I am getting off track..
But the thing is like I said we could go back and forth on this till doomsday. I see your points Robert. Like I said you see it in a business way. I see it in a "faith" way I guess you would say.
You can tell me there is no american car companies left. I disagree as I stated in many diffrent forms..Well maybee there can be if we support whats left of whats out there? get it back on track, bring these companies the american spirit it had by staying faithful to companies that are here, that have a history thats tied to this country. Not going to other companies thinking it has no impact. You say it doesnt, hell it doesnt. It sure does. You can say man for all its worth that they are global and not an "american" company, heck any big sucsessful company from America is global Ford,Pepsi, GE,Microsoft,GM, McDonalds so on and so forth . so America is not America anymore cus these companies that were founded here are global??
Like I said before I agree to disagree and thats it man. Were both never going to see eye to eye..

 

I know you don't agree but when you buy a car built in America by American workers you ARE buying an American Car...when you buy one built in Canada by Canadians or one built in Mexico by Mexicans you are buying a Canadian car or a Mexican Car and when you buy a car built in Mexico or Canada (or China or Germany or wherever) as much as 95% of the $$$ that would stayed in the US if you purchased a US built vehicle are insted, trensfered out of the US economy and to the economies of Canada or Mexico (or wherever)...by the way, that's one of the primary points of Dobbs' book.

You obviously didn't read what I wrote in my post above...YES the transplants will take advantage of the marketing advantage offered by virtue of building a car in the US but using an advantage doesn't mean that's WHY they built facilities in the US rather than continuing to just import all their product...they built here because it was less expensive to build here than buiilding their product thousands of miles away form their primary market, paying transportation costs to get them here and paying import duties and taxes on top of that. There is simply NO marketing advantage big enough to justify the billions of dollars invested in building facilities here.

If you want to insist it's primairly for a marketing advantage that's fine but you are simply wrong.

Oh yes…and I’m really thrilled that the next Camaro will be built in Canada! How sad is it that GM apparently can’t find a “high quality” plant in the United States to build the all-American icon Camaro!

I suspect the real truth is that the Camaro won’t be built in Canada because of “quality”, it will be built there because it’s cheaper to do so…showing once again that “cheap” (and therefore good for the company) wins out over doing what might cost more but be good for America.

Again, you can call GM “American” all you want and they’ll keep sending more and more work outside of the US until the only real presence of GM in the US will be an office building for their executives while all the real work is done in China, Mexico and who knows where else.

 

Hogwash! The American automakers are GM, Ford, and to a lesser extent dcx............period..........end of story! And yeah, it's a marketing ploy, just like the hybrids. Designed to help bring down the AMERICAN brands. And low and behold, it seems to be working, but not without A LOT of help! I hope some of you are happy to be pissing away this great country............thank you. One day, these words will resonate in your ears, but by then, sadly, it'll be too late.

 

I understand your feelings but that's really what they are...feelings...and feelings are not fact.

No, the transplants building facilities here is not a marketing ploy...companies don't spend tens of billions of dollars and employ tens of thousands of Americans just to sell a few extra cars per year...you can call a duck a horse all day long but it's still a duck and you can call the transplants' facilities a "marketing ploy" all day long but they are not.

As I said above; there will be some still calling GM and Ford "American" even when the only facilities thay have left on US soil is one office building each and everything they "make" is manufactured in China, India, Canada or Mexico.