View Poll Results: Read my post before you vote:
I知 Jumping ship period, I知 sick of this.
17
15.89%
I知 jumping ship until I hear something definite but until then I see no point in waiting around.
34
31.78%
I知 keeping the faith just because I still believe GM will prove itself in the end
46
42.99%
I知 Keeping the faith because I know something more than you.
10
9.35%
Voters: 107. You may not vote on this poll
So What Does Everyone Think of the Current Situation Around Here?
#76
Re: So What Does Everyone Think of the Current Situation Around Here?
Well, i'm not as big a GM diehard as most guys here. I have nothing against buying a Ford, Dodge, or even IMPORT product assuming it fits my wants/needs. So the way i see it, GM will have to earn my sale just like everyone else, so they had better pull all the stops on the 07/08 5th gen coupe, and it had better be called "camaro".
#77
Re: So What Does Everyone Think of the Current Situation Around Here?
If you are going to wait around till GM (or anyone) gets around to bringing a particular car back, what are you getting out of it?? Are you going to get a paycheck from GM? Is GM going to get you into the "pearly gates"? Are you expecting your face on the cover of "GM's Number 1 Fan" magazine with world wide press coverage??
#78
Re: So What Does Everyone Think of the Current Situation Around Here?
Originally Posted by guionM
Understand your post now. It initially came across as a complaint about tnot being able to take a brand new car, and basically make a whole other car out of it.
The car's weight, which in stock form, 3200-3400 is actually very good in today's market. But, anyone expecting an IRS Camaro to come in at that weight is going to be in for a very very rude awakening.
No one is going to drop a 5 year contract on something that cost as much as a small house in some parts of the country, and then gut any warranty they have on the car by swaping engines, and proceeding to ruin it for future resale by welding in cages and such. That's what I was commenting on.
Someone picking up a cheap used Camaro, then prepping it for racing is a whole different ballpark.
But, as far as new cars, Camaro Z28s and SSs ARE actually weekend cruisers for middle upper-middle class guys (median age around 41, median income around $65,000, most all have at least 2 cars, 70% men for 4th gen Z28 & higher in all areas for the SS). Has been for years. Probally have to go back to at least the late 70s to find any different. Perhaps even back to the late 60s.
Camaros didn't cost $35K, they started at $23,000. No one wanted them. At 3400 pounds, Camaros are in fact lightweight. Other than stripped Mustang GTs, there are no other new or recent V8 powered 4 passenger cars in the world that light. The new Mustang GT weighs 3400 pounds and costs $25K ($24,995), so let's be fair.
The car's weight, which in stock form, 3200-3400 is actually very good in today's market. But, anyone expecting an IRS Camaro to come in at that weight is going to be in for a very very rude awakening.
No one is going to drop a 5 year contract on something that cost as much as a small house in some parts of the country, and then gut any warranty they have on the car by swaping engines, and proceeding to ruin it for future resale by welding in cages and such. That's what I was commenting on.
Someone picking up a cheap used Camaro, then prepping it for racing is a whole different ballpark.
But, as far as new cars, Camaro Z28s and SSs ARE actually weekend cruisers for middle upper-middle class guys (median age around 41, median income around $65,000, most all have at least 2 cars, 70% men for 4th gen Z28 & higher in all areas for the SS). Has been for years. Probally have to go back to at least the late 70s to find any different. Perhaps even back to the late 60s.
Camaros didn't cost $35K, they started at $23,000. No one wanted them. At 3400 pounds, Camaros are in fact lightweight. Other than stripped Mustang GTs, there are no other new or recent V8 powered 4 passenger cars in the world that light. The new Mustang GT weighs 3400 pounds and costs $25K ($24,995), so let's be fair.
Yea I'm not saying the new car would suck because I personally cant take it new and race car it that same week. I think it would suck as a Camaro bc I could never do that, it would just be so out of touch with what I want in a Camaro. I dont believe that I am the target market for a Camaro, but I am that extreme edge of its target market. If they build a car just to satisfy me, there arent enough of me to support it, a la 4th gen. But that doesnt mean I should be left out in the cold, $ in hand either.
I dont sell my Camaros, and I probably wouldnt buy 1st day on the showroom new. Id look to catch a 2008 Camaro just as the 2009s are rolling out or slightly before, and snag a good price on a Z28 6 speed 1LE. And I would own it forever, so losing warranties, adding cages + mods dont matter. Plus there is a good chance it would turn into a shop car that we took to car shows and races, so it would need to be modded.
As far as Camaros being those upper middle class weekend cruisers, I agreed, and I think that is why they arent made any more. Having a top model SS with everything and IRS blah blah for those guys is fine, or having an entirely different car for them is better (chevelle), but Camaro has left its main market hanging out to dry, with mustang and the import crowd gobbling it up.
Corvette gets all the loving, as it should, and that car comes in light with everything, a great bang for your buck car. If those weekend cruisers are out there, why dont they get a Vette or a high model Camaro and leave us with something other than FWD crap to buy as well.
I think a market for a camaro exactly as the Mustang is (moderate weight, good price on a V8, good marketing, higher $ specialty versions, with v6s carrying the line) would make a killing.
Last edited by Bad AZz Z28; 12-11-2004 at 04:18 PM.
#79
Re: So What Does Everyone Think of the Current Situation Around Here?
I'd say the situation looks pretty bleak. Seems like we could get a car thats not a Camaro or else wait even longer for a Camaro. Pretty shoddy situation if you ask me.
I want a 5th gen Camaro badly, but if it doesnt come out or if GM fudges it up, then a used Corvette or new Mach 1 would fit the bill nicely.
I want a 5th gen Camaro badly, but if it doesnt come out or if GM fudges it up, then a used Corvette or new Mach 1 would fit the bill nicely.
#80
Re: So What Does Everyone Think of the Current Situation Around Here?
I think there is just too much good stuff coming from GM to just leave them. Right now, I have a lease, and I hope that with all the future product coming out, that GM will have at least ONE car out there for me. Be it a used GTO, new GTO, or a Grand Prix/G8.
#81
Re: So What Does Everyone Think of the Current Situation Around Here?
Originally Posted by Big Als Z
I think there is just too much good stuff coming from GM to just leave them. Right now, I have a lease, and I hope that with all the future product coming out, that GM will have at least ONE car out there for me. Be it a used GTO, new GTO, or a Grand Prix/G8.
The only thing I'd get that GM doesn't offer or GM doesn't offer something as good, would be a Honda Accord, a hybrid, and if I could afford it - an exotic of some sort (yes, I'd still take a Mercialago over a new Z06 for the exclusivity factor mostly). Other than that, there is no reason for me to jump ship as GM offers every thing I could possibley need. Its not a matter of being "brand loyal", as I am anything but that. GM just really has has the best products for me right now.
#82
Re: So What Does Everyone Think of the Current Situation Around Here?
What's the current situation?
Well, I think we are still in the same place we always were right now. Fact is, we now know that there is a Zeta Chevrolet Camaro due to sell at least 100,000 cars or so in 07 as an 08 model. We even know the code for the car. We've basically known this for a few years now from another upcoming products list. The thing is, we can't know if this IS going to be the Camaro or not. People are questioning if it is best to call it a Camaro or not. If they decide not to, that leaves us with nothing unless they decide to use Torana. Nothing has really changed much, unless that Chevy Zeta Coupe is going to be called Camaro that is.
Well, I think we are still in the same place we always were right now. Fact is, we now know that there is a Zeta Chevrolet Camaro due to sell at least 100,000 cars or so in 07 as an 08 model. We even know the code for the car. We've basically known this for a few years now from another upcoming products list. The thing is, we can't know if this IS going to be the Camaro or not. People are questioning if it is best to call it a Camaro or not. If they decide not to, that leaves us with nothing unless they decide to use Torana. Nothing has really changed much, unless that Chevy Zeta Coupe is going to be called Camaro that is.
Last edited by IZ28; 12-12-2004 at 12:28 AM.
#83
Re: So What Does Everyone Think of the Current Situation Around Here?
Originally Posted by IZ28
Well, I think we are still in the same place we always were right now. Fact is, we now know that there is a Zeta Chevrolet Camaro due to sell at least 100,000 cars or so in 07 as an 08 model. We even know the code for the car. We've basically know this for a few years now from another upcoming products list. The thing is, we can't know if this IS going to be the Camaro or not. People are questioning if it is best to call it a Camaro or not. If they decide not to, that leaves us with nothing unless they decide to use Torana. Nothing has really changed much, unless that Chevy Zeta Coupe is going to be called Camaro that is.
On that scale it showed it as being 75Kish, not 100 and on '08 CY, so probably as an '09 MY.
#84
Re: So What Does Everyone Think of the Current Situation Around Here?
IIRC the only Chevy Zeta Coupe on there was the "Camaro." The sell number was the color for 100,000, I checked twice.
#85
Re: So What Does Everyone Think of the Current Situation Around Here?
Originally Posted by IZ28
IIRC the only Chevy Zeta Coupe on there was the "Camaro." The sell number was the color for 100,000, I checked twice.
I guess they'll have to make them look different....huh?
BTW, eventhough it was deleted here, it's still posted ALL OVER the internet.
#86
Re: So What Does Everyone Think of the Current Situation Around Here?
Ah yes, forgot about that. All these cars on the same chassis still says to me that we aren't getting a true Camaro and maybe not even a car named Camaro.
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