Exclusive? I see more 350Z's than I see Mustang GTs around here. Every person who wants a new slightly sporty car to look cool in gets a 350Z, and if you want to be a super cool guy, you get a 'vert.

Also, hate to break it to the guy up there, but an LT1 Z28 is not going to keep up with the LS1-speed 05 GT.

 

If it keeps up or not I really don't give! I'd rather push an Fbody LT1 before driving a Ford.

 

Here are my $.02

The Chevy coupe will probably be right up my alley. I have a 97 Monte that isn't fast, isn't built all that great, but can be fun to drive and I like it. If the Chevy coupe is well styled I will buy one when I can around 09 when I can afford it after graduating from Chiro College. I may be persuaded to jump ship but my heart lies in Chevy country.


Now lets think of something else:

What if the Torano chassis was further along than we thought? What if it wasn't a one off? Solstice took like 3 years from start to finish to get out and go. If Torano is a different floor pan, different top structure (obviously not a roadster), a bigger hydroformed side rail, but it keeps the suspension the same how long will it take to get to market. I think the SSR would be a good measure of this because it used an existing frame but has the same
criteria as I mentioned above only it used a lower susupension.

Here comes the million dollar question:
How long did the SSR take AND how fast could it take using the new computers and hyperspace connections between Holden and GM NA?

 

I don't really care if an '05 GT is faster than my LT1 or not, either. It only took Ford an additional 8 years after my car was produced to build a GT to keep up and/or pass it.

I'm sorry, but I need something more than a copycat retro design to get my blood boiling. It is a nice car, and I am sure they will sell a ton...but whether its cool or not, retro is not as impressive as bold, NEW styling.

 

I kind of gave up reading this thread when I got to this. Not everyone here is posting this kind of poison, but egads... if you are that upset and disillusioned with GM, then it really is time for you to move on to another make. Stop torturing the rest of us with your negativity. GM, unable to change? How did they make such a dramatic ascent in quality and reliability in recent years, now nipping the heels of the best in the world? How did they suddenly become the lowest-cost automaker in North America? GM follows, never leads? Who was first with the Hummer H2? The Avalanche? The brilliantly simple but potent LS1, now emulated by the DCX Hemi? Who shook up the world of mid-priced sport sedans in 1997 with the Grand Prix GTP, a car whose sales shot up 62% that year? For that matter, who today has a reasonably priced car like the 2004 GTP CompG, with its three folding seats, easily enhanced supercharger, StabiliTrak Sport, TapShift, XM and HUD? hmmMM? I am so sick and tired of GM 'enthusiasts' standing around (in a virtual sense of course) just to whine about how lousy GM is. Good grief.

 

Good post. Im tired of the so called "GM Faithful" saying they are jumping ship because of one car.

 

We're the "GM Faithful" because of one car. This isn't "ILoveCavaliers.com" this is "CamaroZ28.com"

If GM didn't have the Camaro for the last 10 years, they'd have a bunch of rich boys driving around in 'vettes that they don't even consider related to the rest of the bunch at all, and nothing else. Maybe a few (real) Impala SS owners disgruntled at that car's short run. GM's faithful is based almost entirely on the F-body, so yeah, getting rid of it is a pretty big blow to them as a company. I'm not going to turn around and buy the underpowered, overpriced pig of a Monte Carlo SS just because that's all lord and master GM feels fit to offer me today. I liked my Camaro because it was a badass car, not because it was made by GM. GM just decided that the business of cool cars for an affordable price. Now it's one or the other.

 

Then your not a GM faithful, you just want the next best thing to show off.

 

Then count me as a non GM faithful. Some of you take this GM loyalty way too far and act like GM is your country or something.

 

werd

 

Finally!!
SOMEBODY said it!!!!

 

Lets see...
Zeta rear drive V8 cars comming to a dealer near you:

• 2006 Buick Roadmaster
• 2007 Buick Velite
• 2007 Pontiac Grand Prix
• 2007 Pontiac GTO
• 2008 Chevrolet Impala
• 2008 Chevrolet Camaro
• 2009 Chevrolet Monte Carlo

 

Guion, I definately enjoy your posts, and would have completely lost faith in a Camaro at all without you being here. So maybe I just lacked expanation, since I cant say that I get your pretty solid rejection of my post.

For a car this size with this structure and some options, I think 3300-3400lbs is fine. I think the weight of my 98 camaro with its additions should not have to be 3700+, but thats the way it is. But that weight includes everything I need to make a nasty street/strip car. I dont think there is any excuse to come in at that weight WITHOUT all of the extras I had mentioned. If GM wants to build a Chevy Chevelle (chevy gto), then by all means, I would love to see more v8 rwd cars in the stable.

But consistantly, the car that has gotten the attention, the wins, and the sales has been the one that caters to what the average person in this market wants. In the 70s it was probably more style based and fbods did great. In the 80s performance seemed possible again, and a lightweight mustang made a killing, with a good platform good looking fbod also doing well. In the 90s, although I wouldnt want a low power mustang either, I certainly see why $34k 3600lb+ fbodies didnt make it. New drivers, that used to consistanly want camaros and mustangs, still want light weight fast mod ready cars that are fair priced. It isnt the buyer that has changed the formula.

If the idea of camaro is weekend cruiser for middle-upper middle class guys, then chevy gto it is. But I for one most certainly WOULD buy a new camaro with the intention of adding BIG power, and the structure to handle it, just as we all have been doing since Camaro's inception. We were losing the sales battle bad while the car was out. It is a hard sell to kids now to get a heavy expensive camaro over a light cheap civic. And those dumb kids turn into life long customers.

I think Camaro should be the street bruiser, the car that that is out making guys in their teens and 20s drooling over and modding, while still being a solid daily car or extreme race car. High goals, yes, but nothing the Camaro hasnt been doing for years before GM decided a 2 ton tank at 35k is an acceptable Camaro, while Ford laughs all the way to the '300hp rwd v8 at 24k' bank.


(And personally, I would most certainly take a new camaro and cage it with an iron block and boost. I want the safety aspect of a cage in ANY car that I drive, I dont trust the aluminum blocks or their machine work cost when I break it (I will), and I have big respect for boosted v8s. That is a formula I personally enjoy, and I like that previous gen Camaros can accomodate it for me.)

 

Understand your post now. It initially came across as a complaint about tnot being able to take a brand new car, and basically make a whole other car out of it.

The car's weight, which in stock form, 3200-3400 is actually very good in today's market. But, anyone expecting an IRS Camaro to come in at that weight is going to be in for a very very rude awakening.

No one is going to drop a 5 year contract on something that cost as much as a small house in some parts of the country, and then gut any warranty they have on the car by swaping engines, and proceeding to ruin it for future resale by welding in cages and such. That's what I was commenting on.

Someone picking up a cheap used Camaro, then prepping it for racing is a whole different ballpark.

But, as far as new cars, Camaro Z28s and SSs ARE actually weekend cruisers for middle upper-middle class guys (median age around 41, median income around $65,000, most all have at least 2 cars, 70% men for 4th gen Z28 & higher in all areas for the SS). Has been for years. Probally have to go back to at least the late 70s to find any different. Perhaps even back to the late 60s.

Camaros didn't cost $35K, they started at $23,000. No one wanted them. At 3400 pounds, Camaros are in fact lightweight. Other than stripped Mustang GTs, there are no other new or recent V8 powered 4 passenger cars in the world that light. The new Mustang GT weighs 3400 pounds and costs $25K ($24,995), so let's be fair.

 

Ah yes, the REAL world rears it's ugly head!!!

Brand loyalty is all well & good, but honestly, If I (or 99% of the population) am spending the next 5 or 6 years working my butt off to pay off the largest purchase I'm going to make outside a house, I'm going for what I want & the best I can get for the money.

If you are going to wait around till GM (or anyone) gets around to bringing a particular car back, what are you getting out of it?? Are you going to get a paycheck from GM? Is GM going to get you into the "pearly gates"? Are you expecting your face on the cover of "GM's Number 1 Fan" magazine with world wide press coverage??

Hardly! You are going to line up, give GM a substantial portion of your money for the next 4, 5, or even 6 years, and that's it. You aren't even going to shake hands with the area supervisor, let alone upper GM management as a reward for loyal waiting.

Blind loyalty is great for religions and relationships, but when it comes to someone YOU are paying not giving you the type of goods or service YOU want, who is controlling who???

Look, I like Camaros as much as the next guy here, but lets be real. Mustang IS the closet car to Camaro.

Besides, how do we even know the car's going to be called "Camaro"? Or even be the type car we're expecting??