Originally Posted by unvc92camarors

why not use that camaro formula like the 3rd gen?
if you noticed, i've heard a lot of reference as to the mustang being like the 3rd gen fbodies
i fully believe that it would work if you would make it well priced (which it should be able to do with spreading the costs around, especially the engine as every car under the moon from gm is getting an lsx based engine it seems), handle well- like the iroc which shouldn't be hard, style it right, and ADVERTISE

i can almost guarantee it would work ridiculously well
if gm wants to make it more mustang like, call it something else and let the name camaro die
it's ridiculous to have to change the basis of your car to fit the public when it'll work like it used to and still would, imo

Originally Posted by Darth Xed

PLEASE GM!!!!

Get yourcollective heads out of your butts, and see the simple answer!!!

Rebuild all the 3rd Gen tooling, and just make new 2006 3rd Gen Camaros!!! Everyone knows they'll sell like WILDFIRE today!!!

Originally Posted by Z284ever

I don't think that's what I'm saying. I'm talking about impact at introduction. I'm sure the 70 1/2 Camaro had that magic also.....but I was really too young to experience it.

I remember the 1982's impact vividly.

Originally Posted by Darth Xed

I agree to a point with what you are saying, but I also remember the 1984 Corvette introduction... talk about an impact! Wow!

Originally Posted by AronZ28

I'd say the main reason for the 4th gen's lackluster sales was the utterly unusable interior. I enjoy the go-kart feeling of sitting on the floor, but many people are used to sitting up in a high, chair like feeling that you get with SUVs. The backseat was pretty useless too, my buddys can squeeze back there, since they are all in their early 20's. And they don't enjoy sitting back there. Now try to get somebody that's old, 6'2" with a bad back(my dad) to sit back there. It isn't going to happen.

And the trunk in our cars were utterly unusable too. I can fit 1 suitcase back there. Golf clubs, nope. A week's worth of grocerys for a family, not going to fit back there.

Also the cheap quality of the interior(especially the Camaro's) didn't help matters. Squeaks and rattles do not bode well for the general perception of quality. Nor do t-top leaks.

Another factor to consider is that most men 16-25 wanted the Camaro with a V8. The price might have been affordable to some of them, but insurance costs of $2000 a year with a clean record drove them away in hordes. And they wouldn't buy a V6, because other than the style and handling, there are much better cars to run errands in.

So a sucessful Camaro formula in my opinion would be stunning good looks, combined with reasonable prices(rember its going to be 2007, not 97 or 87), along with a more useful back seat and trunk, and a strong V8. The useable interior along with the style will be what draws in V6 customers. And a midlevel V8(300hp) would be nice, so you could have the V8 without ridiculus insurance rates.

Originally Posted by jg95z28

I'm sorry but I have to speak up. You third gen guys may love your third gens and hate the fourth gens; but I LOVE MY FOURTH GEN!

I grew up in the 70's. I first got into cars in 1977-78. The Camaros were weak at that point, so I latched onto the 1st gens and early 2nd gens. In high school my buddy had a 1980 Z28... so I learned to respect and enjoy the later 2nd gens as well. Then came 1982 and the 3rd gen Camaros. At the time, I thought "what an awesome car"... and with each passing year they seemed to get better. When I graduated from college in 1989 I set out to buy a new car. Of course a new V8 Camaro was at the top of my list. However when I learned that my insurance on a new IROC (or Z28, can't remember which was available in 1989) would be $5000 a year, I just about died. When I looked into when there would be another price break for me, I was told when I turned 30. So I set my birthday 1995 as my goal for buying a new Camaro. When the 4th gen Camaros came out, I loved them just the same as the previous generations. In July 1995, I bought the Z28 I have today. (Had I known I could by a 96 SS three months later, I would have waited.)

So you see, no matter what generation, no matter what trim package, I have always loved Camaros. I will always prefer the 1st gen Camaros as they were my first love, but I will always enjoy and desire the next Camaro to come down the pipe.

People should enjoy the old cars, but with each new model/year the marque should evolve while still maintaining the heritage and spirit of its predecessor. I don't want a modern day version of a '69 Z28, nor do I want a modernized 2nd, 3rd or 4th gen. I want a 5th gen Camaro that speaks on its own.

For Camaro to survive, it needs to move forward and not live in the past. However it must always remain a 2+2 V8 RWD car that handles like it's on rails.

Originally Posted by jg95z28

People should enjoy the old cars, but with each new model/year the marque should evolve while still maintaining the heritage and spirit of its predecessor. I don't want a modern day version of a '69 Z28, nor do I want a modernized 2nd, 3rd or 4th gen. I want a 5th gen Camaro that speaks on its own.

For Camaro to survive, it needs to move forward and not live in the past. However it must always remain a 2+2 V8 RWD car that handles like it's on rails.

Originally Posted by jg95z28

... I don't want a modern day version of a '69 Z28, nor do I want a modernized 2nd, 3rd or 4th gen. I want a 5th gen Camaro that speaks on its own....

Originally Posted by IZ28

I think some of the mentioned views are really flawed.

The early Third Gens sold so much because they did the usual things that M*stangs didn't, they looked, handled, and braked great. They were just cooler cars and ahead of their time in design. Nothing, not even the Corvette matched their style or looks on the street. They were some of the most exciting cars ever to drive or to just look at when they came out. You could never throw a musclecar into a corner like that before. If you wanted space for longer objects like ski's, the Camaro was it with the hatch and fold down rear seats. (split too if optioned that way) You can really fit alot back there if you try. They might not have been as fast as the early 5.0's but they were still quick for the time, which was one of incredibly slow and economic cars. They still sounded good, had lots of appeal and the most popularity among the general public. Everyone, regardless of demographic, knew what a Third Gen was or someone that had one. By the mid 80's the IROC-Z was THE CAR to have and by the later 80's L98 IROC's, EFI 5.0's, GN's, and TTA's were bringing back real muscle to musclecars again. They retained their appeal to many different kinds of people throughout the entire Gen, as the M*stang has kept, which is what the 4th Gen lost. The Camaro alone outsold it's competition 82-85 and 91. Combined the F-Body did it 82-87 and 91-92. It was the only time these cars ever outsold the F*rd in such a way. They lost 90 because of the half production year. IROC's were more expensive than GT's and I don't know what they sold, or any other M*stang model for model, but you got more overall performance with the Camaro and a much sportier feel/look. Today they are still popular cars with a modern look and still have interest by magazines, sites, and the aftermarket. Prices for top cars have already been appreciating. Can we say that the same will happen for the last Camaros in 10-22 years? Is/was/will there ever be enough interest?

The "Camaro formula" was dropped in the 4th Gen by having less choices, almost the same exact looks between models, overpriced upgrades, by being impossible to work on, and having models not really mean what they should or that weren't played to the fullest. Looks are also something that went against them and they were purposely not advertised. The interest just was not the same and many people bought them just for the straightline speed. Sales did an exact opposite, moving to V8 cars instead of volume V6's, which is a result of a lack of appeal and an interest in performance only. (there was also no true base V8) If the Camaro came back and was marketed in the same way that the 1st-3rd Gen cars were, it would be a success. There is no need to make a M*stang with a Chevrolet emblem on it, that is NOT the answer. A Camaro is what it is, an extra sporty, great overall-performing musclecar.

I think the 3rd Gen to 05 M*stang comparisons that we've heard is because the car has more rake, is slightly less upright, a somewhat similar seating position, increased dimensions, similar suspension design, similar looking 3-spoke steering wheel in the base car, and supposedly has better lower-mid RPM power than before. It seems to have some Camaro influence. I know both cars have influenced each other over the years in different ways, but lets keep our car what it is/what it's known for and just do it right this time and see what happens.

People really need to stop accusing what the Camaro is for it's lousy 4th Gen sales and look at the real culprit, which is the 4th Gen and how they were marketed/designed/their lack of models/options setup.

Originally Posted by Darth Xed

PLEASE GM!!!!

Get yourcollective heads out of your butts, and see the simple answer!!!

Rebuild all the 3rd Gen tooling, and just make new 2006 3rd Gen Camaros!!! Everyone knows they'll sell like WILDFIRE today!!!

EDIT: Oh wait, the 78 and 79 Camaro... on a platform that was almost a decade old at the time, outsold every year of the 3rd Gen... I guess timing and the era has little to do with sales though...