Quick explaination of "Kappa" & "Zeta"
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Joined: Dec 2002
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Re: Quick explaination of "Kappa" & "Zeta"
Originally Posted by guionM
Kappa, like a traditional car, has money spent on it's drivetrain and suspension components. However, unlike traditional cars, instead if having an inner structure of stamped steel, it's chassis is of hydroformed rails, much like a Corvette. This is cheaper and easier to make & has the added plus of being shapped in a wide range of variations.
As for the other components (like the skin, floorpan, firewall, etc), they also cost less to create because they aren't load bearing. This means they can be made lighter, they can be made cheaper, and just as important, they can be made much quicker.
As for the other components (like the skin, floorpan, firewall, etc), they also cost less to create because they aren't load bearing. This means they can be made lighter, they can be made cheaper, and just as important, they can be made much quicker.
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Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Jersey Shore
Re: Quick explaination of "Kappa" & "Zeta"
A Torana-sized sedan wouldnt go against the 300 or Charger. It would be much smaller, more like a 3 series BMW.
This Torana or Beta chassis could really bring a lot of new stuff for GM, as will Zeta.
Beta could bring a euro-Caddy, a new chassis for the 9-3 or 9-5, A Camaro, Torana, and Opel and Vaux cars.
Zeta could do the same, but on a larger scale. It could offer large sedans for Buck, Pontiac, Chevy, Opel, and Holden, as well as large coupes. Im sure you could also make a killer crossover with Zeta.
This Torana or Beta chassis could really bring a lot of new stuff for GM, as will Zeta.
Beta could bring a euro-Caddy, a new chassis for the 9-3 or 9-5, A Camaro, Torana, and Opel and Vaux cars.
Zeta could do the same, but on a larger scale. It could offer large sedans for Buck, Pontiac, Chevy, Opel, and Holden, as well as large coupes. Im sure you could also make a killer crossover with Zeta.
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 388
From: Racine, WI
Re: Quick explaination of "Kappa" & "Zeta"
Originally Posted by formula79
So basically GM can make a Kappa/Torana Camaro very quick, and make it at Delaware. that is if the decision is made the call the Zeta coupe something else which continues to look more likely.
Also of note, T-tops would be much easier with hydroformed framerails. Also, I wonder if AWD will be seen on this chassis?
Also of note, T-tops would be much easier with hydroformed framerails. Also, I wonder if AWD will be seen on this chassis?
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,306
From: Jersey Shore
Re: Quick explaination of "Kappa" & "Zeta"
Ahh..The Theta chassis is similar to Kappa? I dunno about that part.
Spring Hill is getting an update so that they can make the "new" Saturn cars. If these cars are anything like the press says they are, we are all gunna be blown away come Jan.
Spring Hill is getting an update so that they can make the "new" Saturn cars. If these cars are anything like the press says they are, we are all gunna be blown away come Jan.
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 388
From: Racine, WI
Re: Quick explaination of "Kappa" & "Zeta"
Originally Posted by Big Als Z
Ahh..The Theta chassis is similar to Kappa? I dunno about that part.
Spring Hill is getting an update so that they can make the "new" Saturn cars. If these cars are anything like the press says they are, we are all gunna be blown away come Jan.
Spring Hill is getting an update so that they can make the "new" Saturn cars. If these cars are anything like the press says they are, we are all gunna be blown away come Jan.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,132
From: Santa Clara, CA
Re: Quick explaination of "Kappa" & "Zeta"
Originally Posted by Z284ever
Certainly Caddy could use it for it's planned European/Asian market small car, sparing it the need to use Epsilon.... which many at GM, consider not premium enough for Cadillac.
There may be a political situation shaping up at GM right now. Torana's architecture seems to have alot of support in high places, but their are also people who don't want there programs being stepped on. And then of course, there's that thing about GM not having any money to spend.
There may be a political situation shaping up at GM right now. Torana's architecture seems to have alot of support in high places, but their are also people who don't want there programs being stepped on. And then of course, there's that thing about GM not having any money to spend.
It would have the same problem that the Jaguar X-type has. Or the Audi Passat -- I mean A4 and A6 -- have.
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Joined: Nov 2000
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From: Chicagoland IL
Re: Quick explaination of "Kappa" & "Zeta"
Originally Posted by teal98
I don't think anyone would take a Cadillac "Epsilon" seriously, in Europe or North America. Here, it would be the Cadillac Malibu. There it would be the Cadillac Vectra.
It would have the same problem that the Jaguar X-type has. Or the Audi Passat -- I mean A4 and A6 -- have.
It would have the same problem that the Jaguar X-type has. Or the Audi Passat -- I mean A4 and A6 -- have.
I agree. Spend billions to rebuild a brand - then flush it all down the crapper by taking the easy way out. It might fly in China, but the Europeans will spit on it. And what a shame, the CTS and STS were beginning to make inroads.
What's the term I'm looking for?.......oh yes, snatching defeat out of the jaws of victory.
If they're smart, they'll help push "Beta" through.
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,121
From: Houston
Re: Quick explaination of "Kappa" & "Zeta"
As a niche vehicle does this mean GM dose not have full faith in the Camaro and in pony car sales? Or do they simply want to spread cost around? And how low of production are we going to see? GM was easily selling 70K Camaro unit’s year and the last few years of the 4th gen with absolutely no advertising. I can see a Camaro done right selling around 100k units a year. I’m not bitching if a business case is being accepted to build a 5th Gen but I will say I’m a bit confused with the term “niche” being thrown around.
When I hear the word niche I think of the SSR and then I think how dealers only keep 2 or 3 units max on the lot. Wasn’t it a problem that there were not enough variety on lots with the 4th gen?
SO is the Chevelle on Zeta (GTO clone) a very good possibility now?
Other than that I like everything I hear.
Someone want to fill me in on the rest though?…
When I hear the word niche I think of the SSR and then I think how dealers only keep 2 or 3 units max on the lot. Wasn’t it a problem that there were not enough variety on lots with the 4th gen?
SO is the Chevelle on Zeta (GTO clone) a very good possibility now?
Other than that I like everything I hear.
Someone want to fill me in on the rest though?…
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,132
From: Santa Clara, CA
Re: Quick explaination of "Kappa" & "Zeta"
Originally Posted by Z284ever
I agree. Spend billions to rebuild a brand - then flush it all down the crapper by taking the easy way out. It might fly in China, but the Europeans will spit on it. And what a shame, the CTS and STS were beginning to make inroads.
What's the term I'm looking for?.......oh yes, snatching defeat out of the jaws of victory.
If they're smart, they'll help push "Beta" through.
What's the term I'm looking for?.......oh yes, snatching defeat out of the jaws of victory.
If they're smart, they'll help push "Beta" through.
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
Re: Quick explaination of "Kappa" & "Zeta"
Originally Posted by teal98
Yep. And then hand the platform to Fiat for them to build a proper Alfa Romeo again, too.
Now you're talking!
I can see a GTV6 and Giulia Super.
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Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
Re: Quick explaination of "Kappa" & "Zeta"
Originally Posted by Big Als Z
Wow..its not like Epsilon is garbage. Its quite a nice chassis. Beta would be nice, but an AWD Epsilon Caddy would be cool.
AWD Epsilon? Cool for Opel. But for Cadillac...they should call it Cimarron II.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,132
From: Santa Clara, CA
Re: Quick explaination of "Kappa" & "Zeta"
Originally Posted by Big Als Z
Wow..its not like Epsilon is garbage. Its quite a nice chassis. Beta would be nice, but an AWD Epsilon Caddy would be cool.
Since GM has Saab, they should let it compete against Volkswagen/Audi, Honda/Acura, Volvo, etc. Let Cadillac compete against BMW, Mercedes, RWD Lexus, Infiniti, Jaguar, etc.
I believe the Jaguar-ized Mondeo (X-type) is considered to have cheapened the Jaguar brand (at least according to Autocar), and Jaguar is not planning to repeat that error.
The Epsilon is fine. It's just not a Cadillac (at least if Cadillac doesn't want to confuse the consumer). The only FWD Cadillac should be the legacy DeVille.
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From: Jersey Shore
Re: Quick explaination of "Kappa" & "Zeta"
Epsilon is already used on a luxury car, Saab.
This car would be for Europe only where smaller cars are more popular. I do agree taht this chassis would give a better car, but I think that Epsilon would just be as well.
This car would be for Europe only where smaller cars are more popular. I do agree taht this chassis would give a better car, but I think that Epsilon would just be as well.
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Posts: 3,132
From: Santa Clara, CA
Re: Quick explaination of "Kappa" & "Zeta"
Originally Posted by Big Als Z
Epsilon is already used on a luxury car, Saab.
Leave it to Saab. There's no reason to have a Cadillac that is a badge engineered Saab.