Pontiac renaissance! It's coming!
11-12-2006, 12:47 PM
#61
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Annapolis MD
Posts: 2,802
common man. I never said I KNEW where Pontiac was going. Lutz made the comment of the Pontiac fans wish of a 3 Series like extended Kappa if they "could wave a magic wand" I also assumed the GTO would come back along with an imported Commodore.
11-12-2006, 12:50 PM
#62
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Annapolis MD
Posts: 2,802
If a possible imported Commodore is the only Zeta, does this mean no GTO?
11-12-2006, 07:13 PM
#66
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Hebron, KY
Posts: 1,724
We all like the latest gossip, but you can't blame people for not being on the same page when 10 different sources have 10 different takes all the while chomping at the bit to tell the others, "I told you so."
I'll continue drooling until next week when we have a more definitive "definitive" thread...
11-12-2006, 07:36 PM
#69
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Hanford, CA, USA
Posts: 664
Yeah I am not really confused by the thread, Basically the fact that Pontiac is going to get new models, no matter what the heck they are, was good news to me. Apparently the Commodore is coming to the US, we can't seem to argue that. Will it be exactly the same, or a Pontiac face?
Motor Trend may or may not be right, just like always. Seems Guy has been feeling the huge change in the product lineup for a while, why Charlie just started getting new info.
As stated, pontiac needs new models, nobody can disagree with that. Pontiac's success = GM success
Motor Trend may or may not be right, just like always. Seems Guy has been feeling the huge change in the product lineup for a while, why Charlie just started getting new info.
As stated, pontiac needs new models, nobody can disagree with that. Pontiac's success = GM success
11-12-2006, 07:43 PM
#70
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Chicagoland IL
Posts: 16,179
Yeah I am not really confused by the thread, Basically the fact that Pontiac is going to get new models, no matter what the heck they are, was good news to me. Apparently the Commodore is coming to the US, we can't seem to argue that. Will it be exactly the same, or a Pontiac face?
This news will take Pontiac in a completely different direction. I don't know, I just thought it was very exciting news.
As far as the Commodore, I'm not sure, I can only guess on a grill job or not. But like I mentioned in a previous post, it appears that this is not a 100% done deal yet.
Last edited by Z284ever; 11-12-2006 at 07:50 PM.
11-12-2006, 07:53 PM
#71
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 3,698
Right now, Pontiac is all discombobulated. You have a halo car in the Solstice that is cheaper than 60% of Pontiac's lineup, which is backwards IMO. The GTO is a lame duck and that has hurt it's sales. I know Charlie will run sluggish 06 sales up a flag pole but the facts are different. For a car that is killed, the GTO has almost no incentives on it, and for some reason there are dealers hording them. When I bought my GTO a few months back, there were two dealers who had 12+, and they simply would not budge on price. They figure they can sit on them, and they will eventually sell.
The rest of Pontiac's lineup is really an afterthought at this point. The G6 is boring, GP is borderline ugly, G5 is pointless.
Now do you fix that with 4 cylinder Firebirds and small sedans? I really don't think so. To me it seems like the answer to a need no one has. Most old RWD fans like bigger cars and V8's. Younger sporty car buyers are into FWD and AWD cars.
I have no doubt that GM is looking into these cars...and they may hit a home run...but to me it is about as attractive as a Colorado based sports car.
The rest of Pontiac's lineup is really an afterthought at this point. The G6 is boring, GP is borderline ugly, G5 is pointless.
Now do you fix that with 4 cylinder Firebirds and small sedans? I really don't think so. To me it seems like the answer to a need no one has. Most old RWD fans like bigger cars and V8's. Younger sporty car buyers are into FWD and AWD cars.
I have no doubt that GM is looking into these cars...and they may hit a home run...but to me it is about as attractive as a Colorado based sports car.
Hey, I hope so too. In fact, I think it would make perfect sense. Of course, you'll get alot of resistance to something like that from 7 or 8 guys on the internet.......but I feel it'll bring new buyers into Pontiac showrooms - in the same way that Solstice does.
I look at this thread somewhat with frustration. For those who are able to connect the dots, there is a literal cornucopia of info in this thread. But most of the reactions are huh?, duh?, wha? <insert drooling smilie>.
Perhaps everyone is so invested in the FALSE rumors being perpetuated, that somehow, a super secret GTO program, unknown even, to those people who would normally be tasked to work on one, would somehow produce a game changing, (albeit even if extremely low volume), division saving product for Pontiac......... even, yes - EVEN - perhaps, before Camaro's own release. So completely invested in this false rumor, that they can't wrap their heads around what the true reality is at Pontiac.
To survive, Pontiac will need to reshape itself. GM knows it too.
Let me put it like this. Without this new line-up, Pontiac is dead. You guys get that?
I look at this thread somewhat with frustration. For those who are able to connect the dots, there is a literal cornucopia of info in this thread. But most of the reactions are huh?, duh?, wha? <insert drooling smilie>.
Perhaps everyone is so invested in the FALSE rumors being perpetuated, that somehow, a super secret GTO program, unknown even, to those people who would normally be tasked to work on one, would somehow produce a game changing, (albeit even if extremely low volume), division saving product for Pontiac......... even, yes - EVEN - perhaps, before Camaro's own release. So completely invested in this false rumor, that they can't wrap their heads around what the true reality is at Pontiac.
To survive, Pontiac will need to reshape itself. GM knows it too.
Let me put it like this. Without this new line-up, Pontiac is dead. You guys get that?
11-13-2006, 02:41 AM
#72
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 3,132
Small RWD cars is what I infer. With 4s and maybe 6s. Sedan, coupe, convertible, etc.
What Mazda should have done with the Miata/RX8 chassis . . . .
Can you imagine a line of RWD Mazdas with that 2.3l turbo engine?
Or a line of RWD Pontiacs with *that* 2.0l turbo engine?
Season with hybrids or maybe diesels (if they really can get them to pass CA emission standards and not break down or cost a fortune) as desired...
11-13-2006, 02:43 AM
#73
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 3,132
This news will take Pontiac in a completely different direction. I don't know, I just thought it was very exciting news.
As far as the Commodore, I'm not sure, I can only guess on a grill job or not. But like I mentioned in a previous post, it appears that this is not a 100% done deal yet.
As far as the Commodore, I'm not sure, I can only guess on a grill job or not. But like I mentioned in a previous post, it appears that this is not a 100% done deal yet.
11-13-2006, 10:22 AM
#75
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Chicagoland IL
Posts: 16,179
Right now, Pontiac is all discombobulated. You have a halo car in the Solstice that is cheaper than 60% of Pontiac's lineup, which is backwards IMO. The GTO is a lame duck and that has hurt it's sales. I know Charlie will run sluggish 06 sales up a flag pole but the facts are different. For a car that is killed, the GTO has almost no incentives on it, and for some reason there are dealers hording them. When I bought my GTO a few months back, there were two dealers who had 12+, and they simply would not budge on price. They figure they can sit on them, and they will eventually sell.
The rest of Pontiac's lineup is really an afterthought at this point. The G6 is boring, GP is borderline ugly, G5 is pointless.
Now do you fix that with 4 cylinder Firebirds and small sedans? I really don't think so. To me it seems like the answer to a need no one has. Most old RWD fans like bigger cars and V8's. Younger sporty car buyers are into FWD and AWD cars.
I have no doubt that GM is looking into these cars...and they may hit a home run...but to me it is about as attractive as a Colorado based sports car.
The rest of Pontiac's lineup is really an afterthought at this point. The G6 is boring, GP is borderline ugly, G5 is pointless.
Now do you fix that with 4 cylinder Firebirds and small sedans? I really don't think so. To me it seems like the answer to a need no one has. Most old RWD fans like bigger cars and V8's. Younger sporty car buyers are into FWD and AWD cars.
I have no doubt that GM is looking into these cars...and they may hit a home run...but to me it is about as attractive as a Colorado based sports car.
So what is it exactly that you propose Pontiac should do? As you point out, currently Pontiac has no real direction or focus. As far as the GTO, cool car, but characterize it as you will, the fact is that Pontiac deems it a sales failure and is ready to wash it's hands of it.
Reshuffling the Pontiac lineup to include - or even maybe be completely composed of - a family of modern, affordable, fun RWD cars, is an exciting prospect. Honestly, I can't wait to see how they all turn out.
Okay, no V8's. That seems to be your main beef. But so what? Does everything have to have a V8? Between both the GTO and GP GXP, Pontiac only sells 20K V8's per year, (barely matching the low volume Solstice in sales). Is that the razor thin niche that Pontiac should be focused in on? I don't think so.
Besides,GM will sell plenty of V8's in Camaro and Impala.
Last edited by Z284ever; 11-13-2006 at 10:43 AM.