Pontiac renaissance! It's coming!
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Joined: Jul 2001
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From: Santa Clara, CA
You will never move any serious volume with small RWD cars. The only similar ones that jump to mind are the Lexus IS, and BMW 3 series. Both are more expensive than this car would be, so it is not an apples to apples comparison.
Most people who buy the volume sellers (Camry, Accord, etc) have a conception that RWD is unsafe, and FWD is the best bet for their families. The people who do like RWD generally like big honking V8's or roadsters. I know there will be people who say "Well BMW sells loads of 3 series". But I would say 90% of that is because it is simply the most attainable BMW,
Most people who buy the volume sellers (Camry, Accord, etc) have a conception that RWD is unsafe, and FWD is the best bet for their families. The people who do like RWD generally like big honking V8's or roadsters. I know there will be people who say "Well BMW sells loads of 3 series". But I would say 90% of that is because it is simply the most attainable BMW,
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Well, all I can say is, if Pontiac goes with an all sport compact lineup (which is not a new segment, not even the RWD aspect) then the only time that I'll be likely to buy a new Pontiac is if I'm needing a cheap daily driver! As far as a fun car that gets my heart racing when I drive it on the weekends, then I guess I'll just have to buy used Pontiacs until the supply of the good ones drys up. ie: Firebirds & GTO's. Because they for sure will no longer be the Pontiac that I fell in love with as a kid 38 years ago! Making Pontiac the division that caters to the sport compact crowd may save it. But for me it will be as good as dead! And no, I don't like the new Camaro's looks so I'm not going there. I'll reserve judgement on the Impala until I actually see it. But the whole notion of having to go to a different division or company to try to find something I might like leaves a really bitter taste in my mouth!
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Joined: Nov 2005
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From: Chicago, IL
Well, all I can say is, if Pontiac goes with an all sport compact lineup (which is not a new segment, not even the RWD aspect) then the only time that I'll be likely to buy a new Pontiac is if I'm needing a cheap daily driver! As far as a fun car that gets my heart racing when I drive it on the weekends, then I guess I'll just have to buy used Pontiacs until the supply of the good ones drys up. ie: Firebirds & GTO's. Because they for sure will no longer be the Pontiac that I fell in love with as a kid 38 years ago! Making Pontiac the division that caters to the sport compact crowd may save it. But for me it will be as good as dead! And no, I don't like the new Camaro's looks so I'm not going there. I'll reserve judgement on the Impala until I actually see it. But the whole notion of having to go to a different division or company to try to find something I might like leaves a really bitter taste in my mouth!
who's to say these "sport compacts" won't be as quick or quicker than a GTO or TA..
stick a HF DI V6 in there with 300+hp and a 6-speed manual.. in a lightweight RWD car... definately would be a fun car to drive
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,132
From: Santa Clara, CA
Well, all I can say is, if Pontiac goes with an all sport compact lineup (which is not a new segment, not even the RWD aspect) then the only time that I'll be likely to buy a new Pontiac is if I'm needing a cheap daily driver! As far as a fun car that gets my heart racing when I drive it on the weekends, then I guess I'll just have to buy used Pontiacs until the supply of the good ones drys up. ie: Firebirds & GTO's. Because they for sure will no longer be the Pontiac that I fell in love with as a kid 38 years ago! Making Pontiac the division that caters to the sport compact crowd may save it. But for me it will be as good as dead! And no, I don't like the new Camaro's looks so I'm not going there. I'll reserve judgement on the Impala until I actually see it. But the whole notion of having to go to a different division or company to try to find something I might like leaves a really bitter taste in my mouth!
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And it would still not fit the bill for many of the Pontiac loyal. A "this or that" scenario makes no sense to me and I doubt that's what will happen. It's all about a range of choices and both recipes make sense for different buyers. Pontiac can't be and shouldn't be a full-line division, but there is certainly room for several "flavors" of performance. No minivans,crossovers, or SUVs, but a range of RWD performance cars of different sizes, price points and powerplants does make sense.
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From: Santa Clara, CA
And it would still not fit the bill for many of the Pontiac loyal. A "this or that" scenario makes no sense to me and I doubt that's what will happen. It's all about a range of choices and both recipes make sense for different buyers. Pontiac can't be and shouldn't be a full-line division, but there is certainly room for several "flavors" of performance. No minivans,crossovers, or SUVs, but a range of RWD performance cars of different sizes, price points and powerplants does make sense.
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From: Santa Clara, CA
Buy a Camaro and paste on some Pontiac and Firebird badges.
That's what GM should do for the marque fanatics. Sell badges and grilles through GM Performance Parts. That way I can buy my Impala and turn it into an "official" Olds 442.
That's what GM should do for the marque fanatics. Sell badges and grilles through GM Performance Parts. That way I can buy my Impala and turn it into an "official" Olds 442.
Last edited by teal98; Nov 13, 2006 at 07:33 PM.
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From: Chicagoland IL
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From: Orlando, FL USA
Glad to see that Pontiac at least has a plan to make a comeback. Seems like no V8 muscle car in the lineup which kinda sux but GM's gonna have plenty of those in other divisions so I guess its not a totally bad thing. ANYTHING is better than what Pontiac has going on now. Too many rebadge jobs (even though a G4 type car was badly needed)
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Joined: Mar 2001
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From: The Golden State
As far as what's coming, Charlie and I are on the same page. A small RWD structure Lutz brought up early in the Kappa program and has recently started hinting at again.
Although it isn't going to be Kappa (no Solstice-like chassis), it's a low cost structure that's going to be Torana sized and will not be based in any way on the VE chassis. I don't currently know any details outside of it's going to spawn quite a few cars, and that at least some will be shared between Pontiac & Holden, and for Pontiac fans (just like I hinted some time ago) this structure is your best bet for a new Firebird, not a reskinned Camaro.
Pontiac getting the Commodore still seems a certainty (we'll find out if I'm wrong soon enough
), and it seems likely someone is going to get a "large" coupe (I still say it's the GTO, but again we'll see if I'm wrong soon enough), however, this new structure that Charlie has been talking about and that Lutz is hinting at is going to be the core of future Pontiacs.
The Commodore seems like it's going to be Grand Prix's successor, but the G6 seems like it's going to be replaced with this new small RWD structure (once it's life cycle is over) and there's going to be more than a couple of other variations beyond a sedan.
As for my Wilmington comment, that's pure speculation on my part.
We're about 90+% on the same page Charlie.
Although it isn't going to be Kappa (no Solstice-like chassis), it's a low cost structure that's going to be Torana sized and will not be based in any way on the VE chassis. I don't currently know any details outside of it's going to spawn quite a few cars, and that at least some will be shared between Pontiac & Holden, and for Pontiac fans (just like I hinted some time ago) this structure is your best bet for a new Firebird, not a reskinned Camaro.
Pontiac getting the Commodore still seems a certainty (we'll find out if I'm wrong soon enough
), and it seems likely someone is going to get a "large" coupe (I still say it's the GTO, but again we'll see if I'm wrong soon enough), however, this new structure that Charlie has been talking about and that Lutz is hinting at is going to be the core of future Pontiacs. The Commodore seems like it's going to be Grand Prix's successor, but the G6 seems like it's going to be replaced with this new small RWD structure (once it's life cycle is over) and there's going to be more than a couple of other variations beyond a sedan.
As for my Wilmington comment, that's pure speculation on my part.
We're about 90+% on the same page Charlie.
Last edited by guionM; Nov 13, 2006 at 10:53 PM.
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Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Hanford, CA, USA
Hmmmm, Guy got me pondering again.
large coupe to Buick? Statesman Sedan imported and a coupe to be built here? I bet it is no where near the cards. It's a joker and they threw the joker out of the deck.
large coupe to Buick? Statesman Sedan imported and a coupe to be built here? I bet it is no where near the cards. It's a joker and they threw the joker out of the deck.