OnStar And StabiliTrak To Become Standard Equipment On GM Vehicles
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 8,504
From: Ohio
Re: OnStar And StabiliTrak To Become Standard Equipment On GM Vehicles
Originally Posted by Jason E
You wait...auto manufacuters will find a way to consider excessive speed in a vehicle in breach of a warranty, claiming vehicles are meant to "be operated at the posted speed limit." With instances such as Mitsubishi cancelling EVO owner's warranties due to internet postings, it would be even easier for GM to call up a list of On Star customers who routinely drive over the speed limit and void warranties.
WILL THEY? At least in the short term, probably not. COULD THEY? Absolutely. That road test of the Malibu was all the proof I needed that GM pays more attention than you think. Black boxes don't snitch on speeding. But with all the safety ***** out there these days, you just watch...
WILL THEY? At least in the short term, probably not. COULD THEY? Absolutely. That road test of the Malibu was all the proof I needed that GM pays more attention than you think. Black boxes don't snitch on speeding. But with all the safety ***** out there these days, you just watch...
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 8,504
From: Ohio
Re: OnStar And StabiliTrak To Become Standard Equipment On GM Vehicles
Originally Posted by Z28Marcus
See.. you're exactly what I mean 
.
.So I am abnormal because I don't beleive everyone is out to get me?!
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 8,504
From: Ohio
Re: OnStar And StabiliTrak To Become Standard Equipment On GM Vehicles
Let's put another twist on this...
Suppose all you conspiracy theorists are right... and GM can and DOES use OnStar to track and void warranties.
Boy, wouldn't that be a genius idea?
As soon as word got out that this happening... NO ONE would buy a GM product, and they'd go out of business.
People need to look at the whole picture sometimes.
Suppose all you conspiracy theorists are right... and GM can and DOES use OnStar to track and void warranties.
Boy, wouldn't that be a genius idea?
As soon as word got out that this happening... NO ONE would buy a GM product, and they'd go out of business.
People need to look at the whole picture sometimes.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,306
From: Jersey Shore
Re: OnStar And StabiliTrak To Become Standard Equipment On GM Vehicles
Thats not totaly true because not all people abuse there car. But whos to say that it will be only GM cars by then? What if Honda, Toyota, Ford, DCX start using this as well? They all have black boxes, they just need a way to communicate it to a central station such as an On Star type service? What
We are saying it COULD be done if certain laws were passed. Put a little terrorist scare threat into the wording, and people will think its for saftey and demand that everyone has it in there car.
We are saying it COULD be done if certain laws were passed. Put a little terrorist scare threat into the wording, and people will think its for saftey and demand that everyone has it in there car.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,000
From: TX Med Ctr
Re: OnStar And StabiliTrak To Become Standard Equipment On GM Vehicles
Originally Posted by Darth Xed
And when you use it, you risk being tracked or bugged, if you buy into all this stuff...
Originally Posted by Big Als Z
We are saying it COULD be done if certain laws were passed. Put a little terrorist scare threat into the wording, and people will think its for saftey and demand that everyone has it in there car.
In my opinion there have been too many paranoid posts here. The 9th Circuit Court already ruled that FBI could not use vehicle recovery mode to listen to drivers in Onstar equiped cars without the owner's permission or a warrant.
Registered User
Joined: May 1998
Posts: 317
From: Maumee, OH
Re: OnStar And StabiliTrak To Become Standard Equipment On GM Vehicles
Speaking as someone who actually has OnStar, I really don't see what the big deal is about. First, there are a LOT of misconceptions about what OnStar can and cannot do. Not sure about air bag deployment, but my wife was in a fender bender about a month after we got our '04 TrailBlazer. Not a word from OnStar.
Similarly, twice now has the "Service 4WD" light come on, again a perfect time for OnStar to chime in with their realtime diagnostics. Nothing. It turned off after shutting the car off again, so I did not call it in, but it will be going to the dealer for a diagnostic.
I think a lot of the stories you hear about OnStar can be filed under the urban legend heading in the fiction section.
Lastly, if anyone here knows anything about computers and let's face it, OnStar is just a fancy onboard computer, then you know it can/will be defeated. If they invent a better mousetrap, somebody somewhere will invent a better mouse.
And to everyone who thinks they're going to be spied on. I hope I'm the first one GM does this to. Then me and my lawyer can retire to Bermuda. It would be PR suicide for GM to start monitoring their own customers, but I think most here get that.
Similarly, twice now has the "Service 4WD" light come on, again a perfect time for OnStar to chime in with their realtime diagnostics. Nothing. It turned off after shutting the car off again, so I did not call it in, but it will be going to the dealer for a diagnostic.
I think a lot of the stories you hear about OnStar can be filed under the urban legend heading in the fiction section.
Lastly, if anyone here knows anything about computers and let's face it, OnStar is just a fancy onboard computer, then you know it can/will be defeated. If they invent a better mousetrap, somebody somewhere will invent a better mouse.
And to everyone who thinks they're going to be spied on. I hope I'm the first one GM does this to. Then me and my lawyer can retire to Bermuda. It would be PR suicide for GM to start monitoring their own customers, but I think most here get that.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 8,504
From: Ohio
Re: OnStar And StabiliTrak To Become Standard Equipment On GM Vehicles
Originally Posted by RoMaD
Speaking as someone who actually has OnStar, I really don't see what the big deal is about. First, there are a LOT of misconceptions about what OnStar can and cannot do. Not sure about air bag deployment, but my wife was in a fender bender about a month after we got our '04 TrailBlazer. Not a word from OnStar.
Similarly, twice now has the "Service 4WD" light come on, again a perfect time for OnStar to chime in with their realtime diagnostics. Nothing. It turned off after shutting the car off again, so I did not call it in, but it will be going to the dealer for a diagnostic.
I think a lot of the stories you hear about OnStar can be filed under the urban legend heading in the fiction section.
Lastly, if anyone here knows anything about computers and let's face it, OnStar is just a fancy onboard computer, then you know it can/will be defeated. If they invent a better mousetrap, somebody somewhere will invent a better mouse.
And to everyone who thinks they're going to be spied on. I hope I'm the first one GM does this to. Then me and my lawyer can retire to Bermuda. It would be PR suicide for GM to start monitoring their own customers, but I think most here get that.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,180
From: Yadkinville, NC USA
Re: OnStar And StabiliTrak To Become Standard Equipment On GM Vehicles
Originally Posted by Darth Xed
And when you use it, you risk being tracked or bugged, if you buy into all this stuff...
I can teach you all you want to know about tracking a signal. Triangulation of your signal can be done with only two or more reception towers and the codec info that is invisible to your ears but is carried on the microwave bands. I have a relative that is high in management at a national cellular provider, and I have played with reception equipment and listened to conversations (they were my calls, we were checking operation of my phone, but we heard others while dialing in my frequency at the test stand, so I know how easy it is).
If you have one, people have your personal information. You don't need to even use it to have your info tracked. Also, it appears you have a checking account. Same thing. Personal info can be tracked with checking accounts.
There are pirates with software designed to intercept data transmission across data lines on the web. This software can track every single keystroke - just go to spybot and read a little, it will shock you.
Every time you enter your number and hit "send", it is rebroadcast across phone lines and data lines that make it possible to be intercepted. The more transmissions, the more chances of interceptance.
Friend, I know the data is on file at the cardholders office, and also at the credit agency - but I have an agreement with those companies that the data will be held confidential. They are not to be broadcasting it to all creation. So that's only PART of the risk of data disclosure, and it's a part I'm more comfortable risking.
Along the same lines, your employer has as much if not more info on you, including nearest kin, beneficiaries, phone numbers, addresses, and account info (for direct deposit and retirement accounts). Employers are much more willing to divulge data than financial agencies because the employer has less risk of financial loss. Now what?
Ford advertised Pinto's. People died in Pintos. I'm sure Ford did not intend this to happen. Should they be held in the same light?
Bad example. Ford never claimed the Pinto could save your life either.
My point was not to believe everything a big company tells you.
They lie. Enron. Time/Warner. AOL. Tyco. And so on.
So does the government. Los Alamos. Agent Orange. Iran/Contra. Watergate. And so on.
I don't trust either group, until proof is shown of what they claim.
Of course. Just like any other product or service you choose to purchase or partake in, you have to decide if you want it.
Which is a right that we still have here in the good ol' USA, at least for a little while longer.
I choose NOT to have monitoring devices and potential spyware in my vehicle.
Thanks anyways.
Guess what. People drove cars before seat belts, air bags, ABS, etc etc etc... and the vast majority of them survived it. Are you telling me that seat belts, air bags, and ABS are useless as well, since a lot of people made it without? That's craziness. Obviously these items saved a LOT of lives. OnSTar can do the same exact thing.
But those items do not allow anyone to spy on me, report on my actions, track my locations, track my activities, listen to me unbeknowst, or cost me a monthly continuation fee either, do they?
Maybe OnStar will save some lives - great. It will also cost a lot of people that have done nothing wrong a lot of time and money to defend themselves against wrongful accusations, repair work, and maintenance fees too. Not that lives are worth any amount of money, but I don't see this as a one-way street to Happyville.
You are really coming off as a bit extreme and parnoid. Again, the goverment (even though the government doesn't own OnStar...
) ... has better things to do that try to "screw me" with my OnStar system.
You're getting a little revved up over this now, not me!
This is where the internet and my typed words are misleading. If you knew me personally and we were at a table over beers, you would see I am not at critical-mass over this.
BUT, I do take it seriously. It's like voting, civil service, or paying taxes. I actually make my living developing technology and implementing it into production plants. I am pro-change, pro-technology by default. But I also know, as centric so eloquently put it... "If the technology is there, it will be used. And we don't know who will be using it." In cases like this one with OnStar, I can assure you that it will not just be used for your sole benefit.
So if you subscribe to opening your life (even MORE) to anyone or anybody that asks for access, you have the given right to do so - be my guest.
But don't expect me to jump off a bridge just because everyone else did and said it was beneficial for them.
I can teach you all you want to know about tracking a signal. Triangulation of your signal can be done with only two or more reception towers and the codec info that is invisible to your ears but is carried on the microwave bands. I have a relative that is high in management at a national cellular provider, and I have played with reception equipment and listened to conversations (they were my calls, we were checking operation of my phone, but we heard others while dialing in my frequency at the test stand, so I know how easy it is).
If you have one, people have your personal information. You don't need to even use it to have your info tracked. Also, it appears you have a checking account. Same thing. Personal info can be tracked with checking accounts.
There are pirates with software designed to intercept data transmission across data lines on the web. This software can track every single keystroke - just go to spybot and read a little, it will shock you.
Every time you enter your number and hit "send", it is rebroadcast across phone lines and data lines that make it possible to be intercepted. The more transmissions, the more chances of interceptance.
Friend, I know the data is on file at the cardholders office, and also at the credit agency - but I have an agreement with those companies that the data will be held confidential. They are not to be broadcasting it to all creation. So that's only PART of the risk of data disclosure, and it's a part I'm more comfortable risking.
Along the same lines, your employer has as much if not more info on you, including nearest kin, beneficiaries, phone numbers, addresses, and account info (for direct deposit and retirement accounts). Employers are much more willing to divulge data than financial agencies because the employer has less risk of financial loss. Now what?
Ford advertised Pinto's. People died in Pintos. I'm sure Ford did not intend this to happen. Should they be held in the same light?
Bad example. Ford never claimed the Pinto could save your life either.
My point was not to believe everything a big company tells you.
They lie. Enron. Time/Warner. AOL. Tyco. And so on.
So does the government. Los Alamos. Agent Orange. Iran/Contra. Watergate. And so on.
I don't trust either group, until proof is shown of what they claim.
Of course. Just like any other product or service you choose to purchase or partake in, you have to decide if you want it.
Which is a right that we still have here in the good ol' USA, at least for a little while longer.
I choose NOT to have monitoring devices and potential spyware in my vehicle.
Thanks anyways.
Guess what. People drove cars before seat belts, air bags, ABS, etc etc etc... and the vast majority of them survived it. Are you telling me that seat belts, air bags, and ABS are useless as well, since a lot of people made it without? That's craziness. Obviously these items saved a LOT of lives. OnSTar can do the same exact thing.
But those items do not allow anyone to spy on me, report on my actions, track my locations, track my activities, listen to me unbeknowst, or cost me a monthly continuation fee either, do they?
Maybe OnStar will save some lives - great. It will also cost a lot of people that have done nothing wrong a lot of time and money to defend themselves against wrongful accusations, repair work, and maintenance fees too. Not that lives are worth any amount of money, but I don't see this as a one-way street to Happyville.
You are really coming off as a bit extreme and parnoid. Again, the goverment (even though the government doesn't own OnStar...
) ... has better things to do that try to "screw me" with my OnStar system. You're getting a little revved up over this now, not me!
This is where the internet and my typed words are misleading. If you knew me personally and we were at a table over beers, you would see I am not at critical-mass over this.
BUT, I do take it seriously. It's like voting, civil service, or paying taxes. I actually make my living developing technology and implementing it into production plants. I am pro-change, pro-technology by default. But I also know, as centric so eloquently put it... "If the technology is there, it will be used. And we don't know who will be using it." In cases like this one with OnStar, I can assure you that it will not just be used for your sole benefit.
So if you subscribe to opening your life (even MORE) to anyone or anybody that asks for access, you have the given right to do so - be my guest.
But don't expect me to jump off a bridge just because everyone else did and said it was beneficial for them.
Perhaps I am not so CrAzY after all ( or at least I'm not all by myself anyways!
).
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 8,504
From: Ohio
Re: OnStar And StabiliTrak To Become Standard Equipment On GM Vehicles
Originally Posted by ProudPony
By the way, I know I am probably typing the most about this topic, with you running close behind Darth, but in case you haven't noticed, there seems to be a pretty substantial crowd casting votes against OnStar and the data colletion equipment. Maybe we need to stop looking at out posts and look at what these other folks are saying as well.
Perhaps I am not so CrAzY after all ( or at least I'm not all by myself anyways! ).
Perhaps I am not so CrAzY after all ( or at least I'm not all by myself anyways!
).However, OnStar is a buiness that is growing fast... has thousand and thousands of subscribers (I would love to see how many they have, and how fast it is growing)
So, on a higher level, this thread is not a good representation of the general public... as usual. OnStar is, in fact, very successful, and looks to be gaining a lot of steam.
I wasn't going to post this, but I'll post it anyway... here is a life that was saved who is in my life, that was saved by OnStar... and it wasn't even in an automobile crash:
My father-in-law's uncle has a Buick Rendevous. They were traveling, In Kansas City (they are from NE Ohio) at the time... he is elderly in his lower 80's. He had a heart attack coming out from a restaurant. His wife pressed the emergency OnStar button, and they got EMS out there in 7 minutes. They also walked her through things to help him while they waited. He survived. Likely, he would not have if it weren't for OnStar. Even if they had a cell phoine with them, they were in unfamiliar territory, and would not have likely known where they were. OnStar pinpionted them... AT THEIR REQUEST, and saved his life.
You can take the arguement even further if you consider some localities do not have a 911 service, so in that case, even if you HAD a cell phone, what good does it do?
I look at it this way... if I was a parent (I am not yet) and something was happening to my kid, and he or she died because I could not get help fast enough... I don't know how I could live with myself knowing I did not take all the steps I could to save my kids life.... even if I weren't so concerned with my own.
Last edited by Darth Xed; Feb 2, 2005 at 01:02 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,180
From: Yadkinville, NC USA
Re: OnStar And StabiliTrak To Become Standard Equipment On GM Vehicles
Originally Posted by Jason E
You wait...auto manufacuters will find a way to consider excessive speed in a vehicle in breach of a warranty, claiming vehicles are meant to "be operated at the posted speed limit." With instances such as Mitsubishi cancelling EVO owner's warranties due to internet postings, it would be even easier for GM to call up a list of On Star customers who routinely drive over the speed limit and void warranties.
WILL THEY? At least in the short term, probably not. COULD THEY? Absolutely. That road test of the Malibu was all the proof I needed that GM pays more attention than you think. Black boxes don't snitch on speeding. But with all the safety ***** out there these days, you just watch...
WILL THEY? At least in the short term, probably not. COULD THEY? Absolutely. That road test of the Malibu was all the proof I needed that GM pays more attention than you think. Black boxes don't snitch on speeding. But with all the safety ***** out there these days, you just watch...
Originally Posted by Darth Xed
Let's put another twist on this...
Suppose all you conspiracy theorists are right... and GM can and DOES use OnStar to track and void warranties.
Boy, wouldn't that be a genius idea?
As soon as word got out that this happening... NO ONE would buy a GM product, and they'd go out of business.
People need to look at the whole picture sometimes.
Suppose all you conspiracy theorists are right... and GM can and DOES use OnStar to track and void warranties.
Boy, wouldn't that be a genius idea?
As soon as word got out that this happening... NO ONE would buy a GM product, and they'd go out of business.
People need to look at the whole picture sometimes.
Please read GPS in Rental Cars Criticized
"Connecticut State Attorney General Richard Blumenthal said his department has filed a complaint against ACME-Rent-A-Car on behalf of consumers who may be charged $150 each time they speed in their rental cars. The complaint alleges that the company failed to properly inform customers of the GPS tracking system installed in the cars, and the potential charges. "
So Darth, by your logic, this rental car company committed business suicide by doing this, because nobody would ever want to rent from them again if they are going to charge your credit card electronically every time you speed, am I right?
Guess what - they did it. And are still doing it.
Just for kicks, here's a link to the same thread at LS1tech.com...
LINKY
I don't think we are the only ones hashing this out.
Last edited by ProudPony; Feb 2, 2005 at 01:29 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 8,504
From: Ohio
Re: OnStar And StabiliTrak To Become Standard Equipment On GM Vehicles
Originally Posted by ProudPony
As for the speed-tracking... been there, done that.
Please read GPS in Rental Cars Criticized
"Connecticut State Attorney General Richard Blumenthal said his department has filed a complaint against ACME-Rent-A-Car on behalf of consumers who may be charged $150 each time they speed in their rental cars. The complaint alleges that the company failed to properly inform customers of the GPS tracking system installed in the cars, and the potential charges. "
So Darth, by your logic, this rental car company committed business suicide by doing this, because nobody would ever want to rent from them again if they are going to charge your credit card electronically every time you speed, am I right?
Guess what - they did it. And are still doing it.
Just for kicks, here's a link to the same thread at LS1tech.com...
LINKY
I don't think we are the only ones hashing this out.
Please read GPS in Rental Cars Criticized
"Connecticut State Attorney General Richard Blumenthal said his department has filed a complaint against ACME-Rent-A-Car on behalf of consumers who may be charged $150 each time they speed in their rental cars. The complaint alleges that the company failed to properly inform customers of the GPS tracking system installed in the cars, and the potential charges. "
So Darth, by your logic, this rental car company committed business suicide by doing this, because nobody would ever want to rent from them again if they are going to charge your credit card electronically every time you speed, am I right?
Guess what - they did it. And are still doing it.
Just for kicks, here's a link to the same thread at LS1tech.com...
LINKY
I don't think we are the only ones hashing this out.
Being that this huge "scoop" is posted on drivers.com and was written by a drivers.com writer... it certainly hasn't received any wide-spread press.
If GM did something of this nature, you can bet your life it would be on every major news outlet availble....
It's a quite a different impact.
Registered User
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 284
From: Franklin Park, NJ, USA
Re: OnStar And StabiliTrak To Become Standard Equipment On GM Vehicles
Well, I don't know if OnStar still works this way, but when my parents bought their 2001 Oldsmobile Silhouette, it had to be activated by the dealer to work at all. They didn't subscribe (I think it had a 1 months free subscription to basic or something), but they couldn't use it at all until the dealer had synched OnStar in with the company. So if this was the case, couldn't you just never synch it in and it wouldn't be a problem?
As for speed and voiding warranties, I want to know about all those people who walk into dealers with "my car shakes or does so and so at 85mph...". I have a few friends who are dealer mechanics and they've mentioned this before. In some of their cases, the dealer didn't want to look at it mainly b/c they didn't want to recreate the problem and have a mechanic caught speeding, but I didn't hear 1 case of them saying the warranty was void. I'm sure there are some cases in which dealers have said that, but fact is is that SOME dealers will lie and make up whatever excuse necessary to get out of warranty work, so maybe that was the case in those instances.
I personally don't care about OnStar myself, I don't have a need for it. In fact, I'd probably prefer to have some sort of delete option for a cleaner look.
Chris
As for speed and voiding warranties, I want to know about all those people who walk into dealers with "my car shakes or does so and so at 85mph...". I have a few friends who are dealer mechanics and they've mentioned this before. In some of their cases, the dealer didn't want to look at it mainly b/c they didn't want to recreate the problem and have a mechanic caught speeding, but I didn't hear 1 case of them saying the warranty was void. I'm sure there are some cases in which dealers have said that, but fact is is that SOME dealers will lie and make up whatever excuse necessary to get out of warranty work, so maybe that was the case in those instances.
I personally don't care about OnStar myself, I don't have a need for it. In fact, I'd probably prefer to have some sort of delete option for a cleaner look.
Chris
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,000
From: TX Med Ctr
Re: OnStar And StabiliTrak To Become Standard Equipment On GM Vehicles
I did some research on Onstar and can you guess what I found out? As it turns out, Onstar is really a reverse engineering job of stuff from the alien spacecraft that crashed in Roswell, NM in 1947. This was done under Project Sign/Grudge. They got the system working by 1952, but at that time the technology was too expensive to be placed in automobiles. After the alien landing in '54, a treaty was signed which had a little known clause that the government begin tracking it's citizens. Although the aliens agreed to share their technology, it was not feasable at that time to introduce the systems for widespread use. However, with the advent of the information age, privately developed monitoring systems were developed and became widely accepted. GM was given the go-ahead to do a trial of a tracking system which was to become integrated in every vehicle sold in the United States by the mid 21st Century. The real goal however was to create acceptance among the populace for citizen tracking. Personal implanted units have been developed, and the timeline for introduction is the latter half of the 21st Century. With only so-called lunatics objecting, the system would allow the government and more importantly the aliens themselves the ability to track all of the people in the country.
It is a little known fact that the key feature of Onstar is nanoscopic subspace transceiver that not only allows tracking of the vehicles, but which creates a network for data transfer among government and or alien installations. Onstar also alerts both parties in the event of a collision in which airbags are deployed. This is so that the aliens, which have long since mastered time dialation, can have more subjects for their experiments. By the time paramedics arrive, the people have already been subjected to experiments, and then returned to their original location and status.
It is a little known fact that the key feature of Onstar is nanoscopic subspace transceiver that not only allows tracking of the vehicles, but which creates a network for data transfer among government and or alien installations. Onstar also alerts both parties in the event of a collision in which airbags are deployed. This is so that the aliens, which have long since mastered time dialation, can have more subjects for their experiments. By the time paramedics arrive, the people have already been subjected to experiments, and then returned to their original location and status.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,022
From: Newhall, CA USA
Re: OnStar And StabiliTrak To Become Standard Equipment On GM Vehicles
Originally Posted by HAZ-Matt
Onstar also alerts both parties in the event of a collision in which airbags are deployed. This is so that the aliens, which have long since mastered time dilation, can have more subjects for their experiments. By the time paramedics arrive, the people have already been subjected to experiments, and then returned to their original location and status.
I still don't want it in my car.
