Is anyone else suprised the only one skewing the facts is the one with the Titan?

Personally, if I'm going to buy a truck, I'm going to compare top model to top model. If GM has a 6.0, and Nissan only has a 5.6......I'm going to compare them....it's a simple as that. I thought the Titan was a beautiful truck when I first saw one in 04'.....but now....I ask myself what were they thinking. I don't think I'm the only one seeing this, the sales numbers seem to back that up. The day an import has a truck that can compete with something from GM, Ford, or Dodge, is the day I will give credit where it is due. Until then, I'll recognize these little "toys" for what they are.

Now where is that pie?

 

...as if any of that has anything to do with what my last post was about.

 

Apart from the fact that pretty much the whole thread was about that, and you're consistent attempts to obfuscate the issue with off topic nonsense... erm... nothing.

Me (& Z28 and a few others...): The Titan is a turd and sales are tanking. Silverado crushes it in every objective measure of truckness.

You: Not if you compare the top-level tItAn to a mid or low-end Silverado it doesn't.

Pretty Much Everyone Else: Well, no ****... but that's not the point.

You: I don't wanna talk about that, let's talk about income statements instead.

 

Ok PacerX,

You can extol the virtues of GM’s great trucks all you want (they have many virtues and by the way, if you’ll be honest you’ll note that I’ve never said they aren’t great trucks) and you can talk about the Titan being a “turd” and about its sales and make all the other equally intelligent comments you wish but at the end of the day, such comments won’t change GM truck sales volumes (which for 2006 YTD are 10% less when compared to a disastrous 2005).

Let’s revisit this a year from now after GM has had all their new trucks on the market for a while and they’ve spent their $400M in advertising and then we’ll look at the sales figures and who is making money off their truck sales.

 

I'll agree to that, but sales numbers are to be taken off the first year of full production. The plant transitions will take awhile... there's a whole bunch of GM plants building 900's and the launches are staggered over roughly a year.

Titan vs. Silverado. First full production year, which is probably MY 2008.

EDIT: Half-tons only, since the higher tonnage 900's are staggered even further out.

 

Are you talking market share % or total sales? For 2007 I predict GM will sell 800,000+ GMT900 pickups and Nissan will still sell under 100,000 Titans.

 

I said at the beginning of my post that I was not flaming or attacking you - yet you took is so anyways. Sorry - your choice, but it was not meant that way.

NOPE - you are taking it wrong - I assure you.
I am simply pointing out that your actions do not match the words you wrote.
I am not accusing you of not being patriotic - I never even used the word in my entire post.
I didn't accuse you of being a newbie to this board - the term "come to this board" means "posting here" period. I know how long you've been a member.

I didn't say your past rides would give you a pass if you owned them now.
I didn't give "them" other folks a pass either.
I stated that what you do TODAY is what makes the difference in GM's tomorrow.
You're putting words - and unintended sentiment - into my text that is NOT INTENDED TO BE THERE, I PROMISE.

I will not defend the UAW - never have, never will. But even if the big 2.5 could shed themselves of the UAW, they would at least be able to bring in people at rates competitive with what importers are paying, and they would still have the legacy burden of retirees, pension programs, and existing workers' compensation programs. Simply put, GM and Ford made promises to people 30, 40, even 50 years ago, and they are keeping to their promise even though it is killing them economically today. I think they deserve a teensy (not much) bit of respect for that, and a chance to make things better today for the future.


My original point was this...
You said in post #86 - QUOTE - "The point is, despite my criticisms of GM; there is no one inside or outside of GM or on this board who would be sadder to see them fail than I would."
I challenged your statement, based on your actions, your driveway, and your verbiage in this thread.
I have not challenged your patriotism, education, or anything otherwise.

One thing we do agree on - I pay cash for my vehicles too.
Haven't made a car payment since 1991 - and I like it that way.
(PS - your money still goes into overseas infrastructure, jobs, and investments - regardless of whether you pay cash or make payments. Trust me... I've been over there and seen it with my own eyes. )

 

I was not talking about market share - I was talking about truck sales period; GM truck sales compared to GM truck sales 2005 to 2006 to 2007 etc.

One point being, people continuing to gush over GMs trucks and deriding the Titan doesn’t accomplish anything…the further point being that GM can build the finest pickup truck in the world but if it doesn't start selling a lot of them and very soon it's going to continue to hemorrhage.

 

If the entire market drops, which it probably will due to fuel prices, the comparison is pointless.

EDIT: If the assertion is that GM will sell less trucks in 2008 than it did in 2005, I would tend to agree with that out of hand.

 

I appreciate your reply but I'll admit, I still don't understand how what is or is not in my driveway helps GM either today or tomorrow.

If I still owed my Z28 or any of my other GM vehicles of the past 30+ years that does not help GM today or tomorrow - it helps GM on the day I bought the vehicle (assuming I bought it new). If I went out and bought a Z06 today that would hlep GM today but it won't help them tomorrow or the next day or the day after that unless I buy a Z06 evey day.

My "loyalty" and passion for certain GM products and for cars in general goes far deeper than what happens to be sitting in my driveway on any given day.

 

I am neither hoping or predicting that GM will sell less trucks in 2008 than it did in 2005 or any other year. That aside, it's more than a comparison; it's a measurement of performance and financial health and it certainly isn't pointless; not if GM is to survive.

The only assertion is that continuing to argue about how much better a Silverado is than a Titan is pointless if GM doesn't sell enough of them...if the light truck market continues to drop there soon won't be a "light truck market" except for that relatively small percentage that must have a pickup for business.

 

Light trucks account for 50% of the market. That isn't going to drop through the floor, to say... 25% any time soon.

 

I have a way to solve this problem of (TITAN vs CHEVY,FORD AND DODGE)
Hook your Titan to my truck (rear frame to rear frame) and see who pulls who
Truck is in sig and my truck is only rated at 325hp.

The Titan is completely ugly don't care about the motor its ugly no matter what way you cut it.
when 90% people shop the cars/trucks looks are #1 if the truck is ugly they will pass on it. so when buying my truck I didn't even consider the Titan.
The Titan is not a real truck!! 20 years from now how many 2005 Titans will be on the road?? a lot less then any 2005 chevy,ford and dodge truck.
The big 3 have been building great trucks for decades now and they know how to build em.

 

That's probably more of a factor of tire traction than it is motor or frame or anything else, wouldn't you think?

Probably whichever one is 4x4 would win and if both are or neither are then it's just a question of who has more traction from their rear wheels.

 

And if they were still selling at that level GM would not be leaking red...everybody had better pray it doesn't drop to 25% anytime soon.