Ouch! That's gonna leave a mark.....

 

I really really think its more simple than not wanting it . Because I would bet an entire years salary if a V8 Camaro was mid 20's ( not realistic I know) that age demographic would swing down by alot . $40K Camaro's are 1) not affordable , 2) many people in my age group are raising families , so spending $40K on anything is typically not possible and 3) to tie it all together , enthusist minded people my age that like the Camaro want a v8 . When u have a v6 Camaro as a cost alternative , and the Camaro v6 is a very very good alternative , their is just simply far more options for performance cars on the used car market that can be modded to meet or exceed the capabilities of a 2010 SS . So why not get a 04-05 low mile g35 instead of 2010 Camaro v6 or hell , for that matter ...a used 01-03 Z06 for those that can have a 2 seat car .

Thats your problem , lots of people love this car and really want it ...as in purchase it , but ya cant just go get a loan just because you want to , reality will soon put your a$$ in place . Ive bought new F-cars all my life , and I simply cannot afford to pop mid $30K's for a SS now . To add to that , I dont want a V6 model . Now , if the LT had a 330-350ish v8 option packaged with the v6 wheels and brakes and t56 priced around $27-28K , I might be wanting to extend myself a little bit to get one . The LS aftermarket is completely endless , the low power off the bat wouldnt phase me one bit . Plus less the really heavy brembo calipers itd be a bit lighter to boot .

If your reading GM , how bout this . Instead of crap special editions like the Synergy ( cool color btw ) , take base LS , add 18" LT wheels , put a silvarado 5.3 with a LS6 intake and cam and t56 , leave it at the standard LS content as far as pw , pl ect. ( Dont allow leather , sunroof ect ect ), add bluetooth and usb...skip the boston acoustics system , delete onstar , allow hid headlamps to be optioned if desired at extra cost without other requirements like 20" wheels , slap a Camaro badge on the side and a sticker on the window that says 27,995, it doesnt have to be a ss or a z28 , just a freakin camaro , and call it a day . Be prepared to make lots of them . I do realize that will never ever happen , and is not exactly realistic ....but if said model existed , a shiny new Camaro would be parked in my garage .

Let all the people who can afford it ....shockingly mostly mid 40's-up , buy the 2SS/RS's . They still will trust me .

 

There was a proposal to do a cheaper 6.0L Camaro. The problem? It would have devoured SS sales.

 

So they missed there demographic due to greed then ? If so , you reep what you sew . They made a camaro alot of people love and priced it out of reach of the people they so dearly want to appeal to . If they would've cared to take into account , even though the lowly ol 4th gen Z28 and formula were in the lineup , they still sold a whooooole lotta WS6 and SS models . People that can shell out the cash , typically will and I doubt a cheaper v8 5th gen with a 6.0 would hurt the 2ss sales much at all .

 

It would have devoured 2LT sales would be more like it . With GM's mindset of wanting to sell more v6 cars than v8's , and Bob's blurp of overpricing the SS's in an attempt to steer sales , guess the low price v8 more people could afford , never had a chance at reality .

I dont mean to sound bitchy or arrogant , but damn . Im so sick of hearing all over analyzing reasons as to why young people arent biting on this car , when the real answer bites you in the a$$ so hard it hurts . They want the v8 and its to expensive . So , you get what you get . Mustangs GT's arent 25-27K anymore either like they were when the 05's came out , their recent sales are lower than the Camaros .

 

What percentage of Mustang GT sales go to under 35? How about BMW 335i?

I know you like to see every piece of data as the doom of this Camaro, because you wanted a smaller one, but this is getting silly. Not many $35K cars are sold to people under 35, because many don't have the money to buy a discretionary car.

Also, the early sales of Camaro have been at price premiums, which would also discourage under-35s.

At first, CAFE was going to doom this Camaro. Now under 35 market percentage. What next?

 

Yeah, the average age of a V8 Camaro buyer during the 4th Generation was the early 50's if I remember right. I don't think the new one bucks the trend all that much.

 

Umm, Mark Ruess?


Seriously, I know you like to give me jabs when you can, but I truly found that bit of info shocking.

PS:

CAFE, will be a serious issue very soon if V6's don't start flying off the shelf.

 

???




Why? People with young families can't use coupes very well (child seat access), and those who don't have families yet tend to get small, cheap, 4cyl FWD coupes.

The V8 RWD coupe that we're all interested in will never sell well to the under 35s (it's not the 60s any more, or even the 80s). Don't think that an Alpha that is a bit smaller and a little lighter, but costs as much, if not more, will change that equation.

It's not that it does not appeal, it's that it just doesn't work with family and funds.

 

Well, you poo-pood the seriousness of CAFE as if it's a figment of my imagination, disregarded the fact that Chevy's once youthful coupe is now apparently not being bought by people 35 and under as my own vengeful conspiracy, so I figured I'd add Reuss to the cabal. He is determined to bring lighter RWD cars to us you know ....





That sounds like the argument against Camaro since 1967. You also mentioned that people 35 and under don't have $35K to spend on a car. Chevy also has a $22,680 Camaro available, as you know, which apparently people 35 and under aren't buying either.
In my personal opinion, the fact that 80% of sales have been to people 36 and over and only 20% of sales have been to women is kind of a big deal. If I were marketing this car, I'd be a fool not to raise an eyebrow at that.

 

I've heard that the C7 Corvette(which is expected to arrive in about 2 yrs) will have a smaller displacement V8 - likely closer to 5.7L range with a hp output that is between 450-500hp for the base model.

So For the 2015 Camaro - I would see a slightly & lighter Camaro(say by 300lbs) with a 3.6-3.8L V6 (320-350hp) base model, with the SS model with a small displacement V8 - of about 5.0-5.4L V8 (425-450 hp).

Still if GM is worried about all of it's cars meeting the 2016 CAFE standards - they will actually need for all makes & models to be some kind of fuel-electric hybrid.

Basically GM will need increase most of their current cars by as much as 40-60% in gas mileage. Of course these figures don't include -if the Volt is a big seller.

If the Volt goes over very well - then Chevy may be able to get by with increasing the Camaro's & Corvette's over all fuel economy rating by 15-20%.

 

Right. First of all, as you know, I think lighter cars are great. I'm just not buying that there will be a significant lightening, until I see some proof. Everyone talks about it, but I have yet to see evidence of any sea-change.

And I didn't pooh-pooh the seriousness of CAFE. Just your implication that it has any more meaning to the Camaro than it does to the Malibu or LaCrosse or any other car in the lineup (SUVs will be a much larger concern, as they sell in much larger numbers and are even heavier). If we're really worried about CAFE, we'd definitely be arguing very strongly against any sort of V8 in an Alpha Camaro (I have yet to see you do that).

And I don't think you're being vengeful -- it's more like you're looking for the dark cloud everywhere you can. The new Camaro is a success. You don't like the new Camaro. So you look for failure anywhere you can. It's totally understandable. There, I just saved you $500



Maybe. But the design center of the Camaro is the V8 model. And even more than that is the problem with coupes today. Truth be told, the coupe market is for singles and empty-nesters. Back in the day, my brother and I sat in the front and back seat of my family's coupes, with nary a child seat in sight. I can tell you with certainty that the coupes we had when I was little would have been at least a sedan and possibly a minivan or SUV today, if for no other reason than the child seats.

Finally, people buy more new cars after 35 than before -- especially those upwards of $30K. What percentage of buyers of $30K cars are under 35?

Finally^2, if I wanted to design a coupe to sell (not appeal -- how many under-35s buy Ferraris? is it because they don't like them?) to more under-35s than over-35s, I would give it FWD and an economical 4cyl. I wouldn't bother with a V6 and especially not a V8.

 

By the way, how many Corvettes are sold to buyers under 35?
How many M3s?
How many Miatas?

 

Now you're starting to stretch a bit too far. I don't disagree with you though. The Camaro (for better or worse) is very V8 centric.

But the fact remains that the "under 35" have $23k to spend, because they go and buy a Cobalt SS (not a WRX STi, those are an older bracket most of the time). The problem is with the same money, you get a top-trim "pocket rocket" turbo Cobalt or a "hum drum" base Camaro LS. You know you got the bottom bone model or you know you got the top of the line model.
Takeaway: That's pretty much the demographic that killed the 4th gen, like it or not. While the battle continues on GT vs SS by rags and gearheads everywhere, the real battle is waged by V6 vs V6. In that battle, GM is loosing again and Ford is about the kick the ante even higher with the new V6.

The next Camaro (if there is one) needs to offer more fun factor in the V6 model while being lighter, more powerful, and more nimble. While the price may go up for the V6 to do it on alpha, a $24k base V6 that has a lot more spunk and character would sell better than the base V6 today.

People drive the V6 and V8 and look at the V6 as purely inferior right now - they need an actual reason to pick one over the other other than they can't afford the V8. Mustang doesn't really have that. The Genesis Coupe is trying to with the Track pack turbo4 versus the loaded V6. I don't know which path is better, but GM needs to distinguish the V6 Camaro as more than "the cheap model" or it is doomed to fail when the V8 is so many miles better.

 

And by making the v6 cars tooo performane orientated you further alienate the people who just want a nice 2-door sporty car that's really not that fast . I think the camaro and now mustang are there now . I would hate to be a product planner for the v6 cars because the line between too much and 2 little is quite fine . I think a camaro with turbo ecotec and interior as nice as Honda accord coupe would sell better the current v6 and polarizing interior , jmo of course . Yes it would get ripped on by magazines and enthusists 10 times over , but I bet the average Joe/Jane would eat it up .