90 Z28SS

I realize why , I just think they could get the ATS's desired mission clearly stated without pulling the 3 series card so much . Just like with Buick , I really got sick of them saying they were the American Lexus ect.

teal98

If you read the article carefully, I think you'll see that the direct reference to the 3-series was not part of the quote but the words of the Wards writer. What Steve Shannon said was, "BMW is the volume leader and casts a very big shadow in that segment ... An important thing would be to make it different from them, but it would certainly be in that idiom of a fun, more youthful, driver’s car ... would put our best engineering effort into making this a light, nimble fun-to-drive ... Clearly the No.1 reason for purchase in that segment is it’s fun to drive ..."

I think if you look at the direct quotes, you'll see that what he said is much closer to what you would like him to say.

It's all good news for the Camaro, I think. I'm still wondering about the V8, though. If CAFE, pricing, and lightweight are paramount, a V8, with all the re-engineering and reinforcement that would entail, takes Chevy in the wrong direction....

Would an Alpha V8 Camaro be the equivalent of the GT500 (esp. the pre-2011 model)? Front heavy and expensive and sold only in small volumes?

Keep the price down and fuel economy up to make it more appealing to under-35s

Z284ever

I'm pretty sure heated internal debates on this topic have already begun, (in fact more than just pretty sure).

The two 800 pound gorillas in the room are:

1) 35.5 MPG CAFE
2) An available V8 is an integral part of Camaro's DNA.

Points 1 AND 2 must co-exist on a 6th gen. It'll be interesting....

teal98

It certainly will. This is all complicated by the fact that I4s are putting out as much power as base V8s back in 1970, and more than top performance V8s in 1980. The V6 Camaro is essentially as quick as the quickest 1970.5 Camaro, and faster than anything from the 80s (talking about showroom condition here), except for maybe a well-driven '89 with all the performance options.

So a V8 today gives much more performance than it did historically, which completely takes it out of the original V8 market segment. I don't think you can reconcile this. One or the other will have to give. You build an an expensive fire-breathing supercar, or a big-boned coupe, or you limit it to a V6.

Whatever they do, the forums will scream bloody murder.

It will definitely be interesting....

Z284ever

I think if you want a "big boned coupe" buy one now.

As far a V8 6th gen, some things will probably need to happen. Volt getting an incredibly high CAFE number would help. Perhaps GM's big bosses can pull some strings with the EPA. Either way, Volt will still be sold at a loss and it's costs will be subsidized by the rest of the line up - but that's a different thread.

The V8 model itself will need to get some pretty good FE numbers. Maybe not 35.5 mpg, but substantially better than now. A lighter Camaro with a Gen V smallblock should be good for an additional handful or so of MPG's when compared to today.
Base versions will need to knock out pretty high FE numbers however, that's for sure. Certainly in the low to mid 30 MPG's.


My sense is that to get a V8 Camaro, you'd better really, really want it. Either because it's availability will be restricted by certain options or bundled to certain options or something. It won't be for the casual buyer - which maybe is okay. The people who traditionally bought entry level V8's will probably be driving turbo 4's. It should be no different for Mustang. Some people will in fact, scream bloody murder I'm sure.

teal98

I thought about it and went for a G8 GT
The bones are only a little bigger, and it's a lot more useful. I still have an F4 for when I want to drive a coupe.

My point, BTW, was that it's a lot easier to convert a sedan that already has a V8 to a coupe than it is to add a V8 to a car designed for an I4.

Z284ever

Would have been my choice too.

Easier perhaps. But better???

krj-1168

While the CAFE numbers basically mean the average mpg for all cars or trucks for said car company.

Since the 2016 standard is suppose to be about 35.5 mpg. That means Chevy will need to average that for their cars (trucks/SUVs have a different standard).

So for example if Chevrolet sells 600,000 cars - that means all those cars must have a combined fuel economy of at least 21.3 million mpg.

Now if Chevy sells 40,000 Volts (with an EPA rating of 230mpg), then they will only need 12.1 million more from the remaining 560,000 cars. Which averages about 21.6 mpg or roughly the same average mpg as the 2010 V6 Camaro.

So the V8 could easily remain a part of the line up for the Camaro & Corvette. Although I would expect - Chevy to drop it from all other car models.

teal98

Good question.

Back in the day, the three mainstream Chevys were Nova, Chevelle, and Impala. The Camaro was based off of the Nova chassis, so it was relatively inexpensive to bring to market and produce. The Cobalt serves the same market today that the Nova did, and indeed, the Cobalt SS was a worthy successor to the 396 Nova SS.

But you can't build a Camaro from the Cobalt, or any of the North American mainstream Chevys, so the choice is bespoke platform, Corvette chassis, next gen Commodore, or ATS. Knowing the rumors that I do, the ATS is a good choice. If we were going to build the next gen Zeta in the U.S., then a model based on that might be better, as it would be less expensive to develop a V8 variant.

But if you want to build a car that will be smaller and sportier, and are willing to go to smaller engines for mainstream models, then the ATS platform is better, even though it will probably make the V8 very expensive.

I don't think it's a given as to which would be more successful (Americans like big cars), but the point is moot if there will be no North American Zeta sedan. CAFE helps seal the deal.

jg95z28

Interesting thing to note here is that at least one manufacturer who recently decided to develop a RWD coupe off their RWD V8 sedan platform decided to skip the V8 altogether and go with a V6/ Turbo4 option. Maybe its us neanderthal Americans who are out of date by insisting our sporty RWD coupes have a V8 option...


... NAH!

Z284ever

Americans like big cars........and....small cars.

Despite all the buzz, there will be no North American made Zeta sedans. It looks like we'll be getting some large Zeta sedans (after their refresh), from Australia, but none of those Zeta sedans will be built here. In fact the lone Zeta coupe built here is already on borrowed time.