SSbaby

Well, isn't Prius also about image? Nothing wrong if you have both a Camaro and Prius in your garage, hey? When was the last time a mega-celebrity drove a GM car? Besides, I was only jesting. Yeah, I don't care either. Back on topic.

Z284ever

Of course you can - assuming that's the direction you still want to go.

90 Z28SS

Large cars are not a necessary requirement of being aggressive . If the 5g say was about the size of a M3 , what would prevent the exact the same design ...in theory ...as the current Zeta Camaro ? It would just be scaled to smaller size and retain all the aggressiveness of the current body .

SSbaby

You can't just scale it down!!! That's the point I wanted to emphasize. The risk is taking Camaro down a class size it's never been before. Mustang has never been officially classified as small, has it? Sure it's been relatively light and good handlinig but it's never had any links to small platforms. Camaro isn't really that much bigger.

Anyway, let's see what happens. I hope that GM will deliver a BMW crusher on multiple fronts without compromising Camaro in any way.

Bob Cosby

How does the 3rd Gen Camaro compare in size to the 5th Gen? Was it not considered aggressive in its day? If the answers are "smaller" and "yes", then I don't see why GM couldn't do something similar with a somewhat smaller 6th Gen.

And no, I'm not suggesting copying the 3rd Gen.

90 Z28SS

Fwiw...1st gen was fairly small . So it has been there before . Alone the 5g doesn't look so big , but sit next to a lowered 4th gen or 3rd gen and it nearly looks as radical as sitting a Colorado next to 1/2 ton silvarado . The last pic I saw the not to aggresively lowered 4th gens roof came just a tick past the 5th gens door sill , it was almost humorous . You mention taking the camaro to sizes it's never been and the 5th gen is that , it's never been so large . Making it smaller would only be taking it back to where it's been before .

Current M3 coupe size would be perfection .

SSbaby

Yes but would that car not look 'out of proportion' if redesigned for today? How would that car look in proportion to a current 3-series?

Yes it did look good but weren't there also smaller cars in that era that would be considered too small today?

SSbaby

See above post. Although 5G Camaro is 'biggish', it's not really much bigger than Mustang... and it is very much in perfect proportion with aggressive stance.


FWIW, I do think GM should have a direct 3-series competitor but I'm not certain that Camaro should be it. Leave that battle to Cadillac.

turbo200

i think everybody's gonna have an opinion. while i agree some of the proportions on Camaro work really well, but some of them work kind of poorly. the massively tall rear, the high beltline and the hips at the rear that accentuate the tall beltline look poor on anything but the 19" and 20" models.

I agree design is one of the most crucial points to Camaro's success, but I hope they can also figure out how to make practicality a number one priority. getting in and out of Camaro both in the front and rear have to be top priorities--I personally have not enough experience in that department with Camaro since I've only sat in one once and didn't pay attention to that key issue. Practicality also means expanding interior room and comfort, even in the rear seat, which needs to be a bigger priority, at least making it to the level of a 3-series or Mazda RX-8 in terms of comfort and key design points. I also think visibility needs to be addressed. finally, the bulk behind the wheel seems to be a complaint everyone has...this should also be addressed. and then, with the right charasmatic update to the design, Camaro will be the perfect car.

I don't believe practicality should be used as a tool to judge the Camaro's merits, since it's really not that kind of a car. Regardless of that, people buy new cars with the intention of living with it on a daily basis, and this kind of thinking needs to go into the final Camaro design. that being said, Exterior design emphasis and focus is clearly the path towards success with the Camaro line.

Bob Cosby

Mustang has gotten too big too, so personally, I wouldn't use that as a metric.

Of course, all of this we're talking about is opinion, so disagree if you like. I shall do the same.

SSbaby

We can all agree to disagree and move on... but before we do that, we should ask the basic question, what sort of vehicle are we targeting? BMW 3 series, Mazda RX-8 etc... ?

Wasn't the 4G model when the rot set in for Camaro/Firebird because it mimicked Corvette size/proportions? Still was able to accommodate big sized people but even that didn't help its cause, did it?

It seems to me that people want 6G Camaro to be small and light in the interests of sharp handling and excellent straight line potential. But not everybody is into that.

As I said, Cadillac can take the risk in tackling BMW 1, 3 series and even RX-8. Meanwhile, Camaro is Camaro and Mustang is Mustang. To attempt to change people's affiliation with both models would be to tell them to want something smaller. Would that philosophy work?

muckz

Just on the subject of size and proportion... Ever since each car started to grow in height, especially the compact and the sub-compact classes, the proportions are becoming more and more "off". It looks good from some angles, and from others it doesn't. Basically, many appear too tall, or the trunk is too short but tall, etc... My Mazda3 has rear doors that look too narrow compared to the front doors, and the car is actually too tall.

So there is some merit in saying that if next-gen Camaro is going to be significantly down-sized, it needs to be proportionate.

90 Z28SS

I'm with bob , the mustangs got a bit to big too , just not quite as bad the camaro that went from ponycar to musclecar .....school bus sized steering wheel and all

Z284ever

We're making progress...

We've gone from, "Z284ever, you are such an &$@$%&**(()*^% for even saying that GM is planning an Alpha Camaro you ^%$#@#er!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ", to how can a smaller Camaro have good proportions?

It'll be fine guys, in fact even better.

You don't think it's a design albatross around your neck, to REQUIRE 20" wheels in order to balance your proportions around a nearly chest high cowl?

SSbaby

Given the standard LS (with 18" steel wheels) still looks well proportioned, I'd have to disagree. By the time Alpha rolls around, 22" wheels will be optional. Btw, all cars look better with bigger wheels. I think the high waistline and cowl is what makes the car unique and desirable.

Though, I'd say the Alpha Camaro would need to be substantially smaller than the current 5G to get any sizeable weight reductions from current levels. I doubt cutting 1" from the width and 2" from the length would achieve much... so I assume it will be smaller again.

One thing that I shouldn't do is prejudge the Alpha 6G. The notion of a smaller, lighter car on a new RWD platform sounds exciting. At least now that talk is out for a smaller, lighter 6G Camaro, GM can apply some lessons learned from the 5G to the 6G as well as accommodate the constructive requests from those with specific, non-mainstream requirements.

Having said that, I still love the 5G and don't care enough about the 6G to make me want to wait it out...