I'll buy that.

That's regardless as to snow, ice, or bad SUV drivers.




No arguement there.

Let's try this, would you agree that the more you ask a set of tires to do, the more dangerous things can become should that same set of tires loose traction?


Every day?


The point is that if the only thing someone is worrying about is traction, then they should spring for AWD. If someone doesn't want to go AWD, but traction is still a major priority, then sure, get a FWD vehicle.

However, the idea that we all live in an ice age where there is so much snow on the ground that RWD is useless, deadly dangerous, and should be avoided in favor of FWD is totally adsurd!

We can continue the back and forth on FWD vs RWD all day, but this can be distilled into 4 points:

1. FWD is better for normal driving in the snow than RWD all things being equal.

2. That benefit FWD offers over RWD is over a small part of the year.

3. RWD cars loose their disadvantage in the snow when equpted with snow tires, and even moreso when they have modern traction control.

4. Unless you are a person who is going to get 2 separate vehicles, one FWD for winter & commuting, and another RWD for weekends and special occasions, a single RWD car is going to be perfectly satisfactory and safe.

As long as a satisfactory RWD car is available, I refuse to buy a FWD car.

I also think this whole debate reflects the reality of many Camaro owners: very few have the Camaro as their only car compared with the "other" pony car. I've had my Camaro as my only car, and I've driven it in the snow on cross country, Tahoe, and Reno runs. The dangerous RWD Camaro has aquitted itself very nicely.

Yep. Plenty of days where nothing moves. Not even FWD cars.

But once you get over a foot of snow, it doesn't matter if you live in Kalamazoo, nobody's going anywhere without a truck.


...including yesteryear's less than perfect tire tread designs, right?

 

To me, an AWD car is the best compromise. It doesn't trade off as much performance as a Front driver and the traction is allways there regardless of the condition. Imo, it's the best of both worlds. And it's just one of those things GM is missing out on outside of Subaru and limited Cadillacs (STS), Saabs (9-2x),and pontiacs (Vibe). I almost feel like they missed the boat on the Ls4 Impala/MC SS by not making AWD available as an option.

They sell too. This isn't the 80's when the market for AWD was next to nothing. The only 500's, montego's, and Freestyle's selling way above expectations now are the AWD variants. So there is a market for them and many do find it a major selling point.

I'm sure Fwd has it's application and place in the regular Impala and MC lineup, but the SS's deserved better. Either way, they'll sell without much trouble. A 303hp front driver doesn't excite me, but there are people that either don't know better or don't care one bit about the drive wheel.

 

I'm going to really hate it when one smokes me at a set of lights.

 

I probally came across as condensending when I said if someone was worried about traction they should get AWD, but I am being serious! AWD IS what you are really looking for. Subaru, Volkswagen, even some good current GM machines (ie: Equinox) are perfect for those whose number one priority in life is getting through 10" of snow year round. These are extremely good quality vehicles.



FWD is to me a false solution that generates false confidence. Ice will flip an AWD SUV just like it'll flip a RWD car, let alone a FWD vehicle. To top it off, there's been alot of people who have been brainwashed that FWD is the savior to all automotive needs. FWD is great for starting off in snow on summer tires, but some seem to think that's makes everything else impossible.

There are some cars that should be FWD. Econocars, and appliences for people who need a set of wheels to get from "point a" to "point b". There are also alot of pretty cool pocket rockets like the Cobalt SS, or the SRT-4.

But when you are talking about all round great handling cars with great feel & balence, you aren't going to find that in FWD.



Maybe there are still a few places in the deep recesses of the US where 30 feet of snow falls to the ground in December, doesn't melt till July, and the local government doesn't believe in snow plows, and a FWD car with 'all season radials' can pull through snow drifts that reach the top of the windshield. However, for the rest of the country (including the northeast) a good RWD car with traction control or snow tires (let alone both) will get you through the winter every bit as good (and in some instances better) as the FWD car you're likely to buy.

 

You're wrong. I love RWD and would prefer it most situations. But when snow starts falling, there just is no comparison. I don't care what tires you have, RWD isn't as good. And sure, you could say it's a relatively small portion of the year, but well, hurricanes only happen a small portion of the year in Florida, so should people not bother buying shutters? Most people don't care about inducing throttle steer, at least not as much as getting from point A to point B as safely as possible. In that sense, fwd offers a good, cheap solution.

 

QFT

I would personally love to see that V8 Monte on a road course with an LS1 Camaro With a 65/35 weight distribution on the V6 you can just imagine how nose-heavy the V8 is going to be in that car.

About 30 less horsepower...torque management...FWD...automatics...yeah, LS1 guys have nothing to worry about. Hell, even LT1 guys could be fairly confident that their cars will keep up with the new Monte and kill it around the curves.

As I've always said "FWD is awesome until you drive one"

 

Go drive a 2005 GXP Grand Prix and come back and try to tell me that...

HINT: You won't.

 

Great that GM is offering a V8, but I kinda group them with the Nissan Altima-type cars out there. Plenty of go, but FWD and in the case of the GM offerings, autmatic only.

In other words, don't think the rest of the car will match the great engine under the hood. Would certainly be interested in taking a spin in one when they get to dealers.

-B

 

I think that's alittle unfair, don't you?

I'm sure that the MC SS's was not envisaged to take down LS1 Camaros on a road course. It's mission is to be a cheap to build, FWD, 5 passenger coupe...with the added cache of a V8 under the hood.


I don't think that's very fair either. Personally, I prefer RWD, but I've driven and owned lots of really fun to drive FWDs.

Just an example: Go drive a Cobalt SS and if you don't think it's fun to drive...well then, you're just not into cars. I also think the LS4 GP GXP is alot of fun to drive. I could probably rattle off another 20 FWD cars which I thought were a blast to drive.

I have also driven lots of RWD cars in the past, which, even with the rear wheels driving, were no fun at all.

 

Dunno if we're still talking about it but...

Monte Carlo's were never GM's performance car. They were always a rung below the Camaro, a rung higher than their economy models. Right now they're just these massive wannabe fast cars, that look RWD but arn't. They really don't serve a purpose, and i'm amazed the Camaro went before it did.

If GM was smart, which it isn't, it would completely redesign the Monte for 06, make it lower, wider, and AWD. Chevy doesn't have an AWD offering, and the tuner market is already WAY beyond the Civic, which is what the Cobalt is mimicing. No contemporary company is making an AWD performance car, and that is exactly what GM needs to stay afloat. The cool thing is, it doesn't matter what the price is either, as long as it's under $40k, because even the EVO and STI are around 35.

But, chances are it'll be exactly like this year's model, maybe with better rear lights.

 

THis is my bros Monte/well he has the same one :P its awesome

http://www.americandreamcars.com/200...loss090603.jpg

 

I know that, and it's a good car in its own respect. My comment was directed at those who think it's going to be even slight competition for an LS1 Camaro.

 

Thank, you! That's all I was trying to say!
With that said, I want my next car to be a big V8 rwd car. . . but GM's best offering in the Charger price range is the GTO, and it'd be difficult to put 2 babies in and out of the back seats (although the seats are pretty accomodating).

GM's next best offering is the MC SS, GXP, and Imp SS. With some guys on www.clubgp.com being able to get them for $25k, I'd consider the GXP.

 

Heh heh, a guy from Detroit is talking about lake-effect snow Here's some yearly average snowfalls of interest:

Detroit - 37"
Pittsburg - 37"
Grand Haven, MI - 86"
Houghton, MI - 223"

The last two are interesting because they're the only two areas in which I've lived, and yet I still only own RWD cars (yea, I own a 4WD truck, but that's for driving out in the field in spring, not for getting to work in the winter).

The bottom line - I'm still really not interested in a "performance" car of this size and power with FWD. If the weather ever got bad enough where I didn't feel comfortable with RWD, then I'd skip right over FWD and go straight to AWD/4WD.

 

I find myself in a similar situation. Although my daily driver doesn't have primary responsibility as the family hauler......there are afew times where it would really be good if I could fit 3 kids and 1 wife in my car. If the GTO was a 2+3, (as it has always been), it would be further up on my list.