Take a look at this...classy like a beautiful woman in that black evening dress.


http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/attachm...achmentid=1833

http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/attachm...achmentid=1836

 

It's really boring and unaggressive though. That is the problem.

 

It's cute and all but doesnt scream buy me. It screams...blah....

It seriously just looks like a 2 door any other pontiac. there is a gto by my house that someone bought in red, and besides the exhaust tone, no one looks at it twice.

there are pontiac dealers around me everywhere with the same gto's sitting on the lots.

 

You may like the GTO or not like it.
You may think the GTO is priced right or overpriced.
You may like the GTO's styling or consider it boring.
You may wish the GTO were built here or be glad that GTO helped GM N/A co-opt Holden's capabilities.

Where ever you stand....success is measured by sales. GTO is a sales failure.

 

That is all fine and dandy if it were a level playing field, but it's not.

Granted, part of this is GM's own fault, and some the dealers' fault, but:

1) A car with a total rebate of $0 in a world where $5000 rebates are almost commonplace is going to hurt ANY car's sales.

2) A car that dealers are asking MSRP or more is going to thin the buying herd significantly.

3) The fact that most knowledgable buyers still interested even through steps one and two know there are big updates on the way for the next model year doesn't help the 2004 model.

It's a really odd situation...

 

eh, call it whatever you like. Still gets me going.

 

It's funny how for years enthusiasts were bitching to GM to bring over the Holden coupes. Now that one is here..... Well......

 

I totally agree!

IMO, it honestly comes down to the 3 things I listed above, plus the fact that a lot of people say they want things they can't have... then when they are offered, they don't actually go and get them.

 

Yup, people want what they can't have.

 

It's really a shame that the GTO is selling at the rate it is. Obviously whatever magical combination of circumstances that led to the explosion in sales of the original back in 64 has not happened this time around. No matter what anyone says, I still believe that the GTOs were every bit as contemporary or bland as the 04 car is now excepting the Judge.

You cannot convince me that the 64 is over the top in the style department. Yes it had hood scoops - fake ones - which today would be called "rice" by some. The new car has neither fake nor functional scoops . The original had a dual exhaust system. The new one does as well albeit with both pipes exiting on the same side of the car.

I really don't know what the solution is for Pontiac. Hopefully the changes in store for 05 will light the fire - and maybe that's part of it; people know the car will have some fairly significant changes next year. Maybe it's something else.

All I know is that I like it as it is and the very fact that I am ineligible for one makes it that much worse, cause I'd have one, if I could. I guess I am able to overlook any styling shortcomings, for I see the whole package, and it is good, very good.

 

The original GTO really hit the sweet spot. It was image. It was performance. It was within virtually everyone's reach. It was the ability to customize your package.

Once you decided which LeMans body style you wanted (Sport Coupe, Hardtop or Convertible)...you simply checked off box #382 and forked over $295. For that you got a 4 bbl 325 hp, 389, HD 3 speed manual with Hurst floor shifter, hood scoops (fake), dual exhaust, HD cooling, HD shocks and GTO ID. That's right.....$295 was the difference between a stripped six cylinder Lemans and a GTO!

And.....there was a GTO for every budget and every purpose. From a stiffly geared, 4 speed, 348 horse, tri-power, stripped coupe.....to a loaded, 4bbl, Powerglide convertible.........and everything in between.

 

I understand where you're coming from and all of what you say is very true but, what I quoted from you're post hit me as a possible key.

A GTO for every budget and purpose. It would be hard to argue that the current car is is anything, if not focused at least in presentation. That's it, an all encompassing package that at 32 and change is the GTO. Maybe the solution is a de-contented car for a lower price of entry, similar to Chrysler's Pacifica which also suffered tepid sales until a lower cost option appeared. Just thinking out loud...

 

When GM first had plans to bring this car over I think they were hoping to steal sales from BMW 3 series buyers?

I guess the question then becomes: What would make someone choose a BMW 330i over this car?

This car isn't available in Canada yet but my wife wants it because she has a GTP and likes the looks. BUT. She is not ready to pay $33G+ for a car that looks like her $20G+ GTP or a $15G+ Grand Am.

She likes the 350hp idea but its not enough to take her mind off the fact that it looks like a Grand Am.

 

Exactly. That's why focus groups are usually useless IMO. I also tend to think Lutz agrees on this.

Focus groups: They often ask "Would you like..." rather than "Would you buy.."

"Must have" is not "must want". There's a huge distinction and difference between the two.

 

Yes, but the F-bodies were also sales failures. As much as I hate the new GTO, I'm not going to consider it's lagging sales as an indication that the car itself is not worthwhile (even though it's not, in my opinion). Besides, when considering automotive sales, it often seems as though the general public is comprised of idiots.