The death of the "new" GTO is way premature.

 

Quoting Office Space now are we


Personally I like the way it looks and goes. However, it has left a lot on the table. To me the biggest turn off is the weight. It weighs more than an F-body (a little porky IMHO), a little more HP and a (apparently) rubbery shifter. Then the "no haggle, dealer markup" policy didn't help. Especially after GM had trained everyone to automatically -$2500 from their sticker prices.

 

AMEN to that. For that matter, the 04's. Looks to me a simple matter of the initial price points being misjudged by dealers and GM. If there had been no markups, and if a little incentive $$ were in place early (even jsut $500) it would have made a big difference in the initial sales.

But to suddenly declare the 04 GTO a 'failure'... well that's a very big reach. I've driven one. This is a great road car, a muscle car true to the bone, with a healthy dose of luxury and quality to boot. As far as the sales numbers... give them time... keep in mind a lot are still in transit for that matter. GM will be discounting them as time goes on no doubt; and the greedy markup dealers will see the error of their ways as well as time goes by.

 

We have plenty of indication that public likes plain, boring cars. Bland, cookie cutter cars. Nobody wants anything radical. Look at how many Cavaliers and Grand Prix there are on the roads, even the pricier GTP Grand Prix. G35 is not all that exciting in its styling. A BMW 3 series has much better attention to detail in its body (lines, folds, bends, curves, etc...), and by comparison G35 is also boring. Yet people buy them. They have nice luxurious style (same for GTO, esp. on the interior side of things), they have good performance (both G35 and GTO).

Dealers are not pushing those cars. The author of the article "GTO is a failure" quoted in the starting post is clearly misinformed about that. And as you read his post you realize that it's an opinion from someone who is not as well informed as some of the people here. Some things presented make sense, other things are weak.

Are dealers offering tour days? Are they advertising those cars to push them off their lots? Look at Chrysler - they have test drive days! How about a couple of signs around the dealership, some flags and some excitement to generate about GTO. Look at how Toyota generates excitement for the little Echo. Echo? Excitement? You bet!!! Just shows that if someone is determined, they will get any product exciting. GTO has so much to offer, dealers could do "Show and Tell" sessions. But nobody is doing that. Many dealers treat the car as just another convertible Sunfire that takes up space. They have lack of training / lack of motivation / lack of desire to push these cars to the public.

You only have to read about certain people here who work(ed) at dealerships and who know HOW TO SELL cars by the figures from the f-body days.

Throw even $1000 incentives on top of good, solid marketing + extensive and COMMITTED dealer support - and the cars would be gone like hot cakes.

 

Wrong. People that buy plain cars are looking for a plain appearing car with plain features and a plain drivetrain with plain performance. A daily driver or a commuter car. This is not the GTO customer. A GTO buyer is looking for an aggressive musclecar, not something plain, boring, or that doesn't stand out. Of course there will be a few exceptions, (people wanting to surprise others) but not many.

This is the biggest reason that the car is not selling. That's all I hear from people, nothing even about the prices because all the local places are selling at basically MSRP. They're not trying to make excitement for it? One of the dealers just had a free GTO giveaway day. They sent keys in the mail and if yours started the car it was yours. Someone has also forgotten that they just made a movie and it basically took advantage of hyping GTO's! They had a bunch, new and the originals. There's also all the commercials and the stunt show that they had for the movie.

 

personally i like the clean look. it's very.... uhm... clean. but yeah, i could see how an edgier hood, some side skirts and a more agressive chin or other dressup items could give it some of that caliente flavor everyone's clamoring for. those wheels have to go too. GM can/has done better before and since. as long as the hood doesn't have scoups and there's no tacky body cladding and the package is tastful overall, I'd probably prefer it over the way it is now.

 

In the first part of your reply - you are wrong. My dealer here - is advertising the GTO HEAVILY! They offered me to spend a few days with the new Goat, simply to spread the word around. They also have a few '04's selling BELOW GMS simply to move them off the lots. Yes, the interior is nice - never commented on that in the original story. The simple facts is, if you are going to revive a history name (especially to us Enthusiasts) it had best stand out.

Simply put, the new GTO does NOT stand out. Not in styling - not in handling, and damn sure especially not in price. It's no secret sales of the new GTO have fallen month over month since it's debut.

With the latest rounds of incentives...They will be lucky to sell 500 this month.

 

I think one thing that hasnt been mentioned(in this thread at least) is the gas guzzler tax.Even though it gets pretty good gas mileage compared to trucks I think the words gas guzzler tax...$1000 and high gas prices may have turned off some potential customers.

The GTO will amost have to have incentives soon. I've seen NEW 04 Vette's selling for less than the 04 GTO's. They are advertsing 04 Vette's in the Dallas area papers for $34-$35k after dealer incentives/rebates. The one GTO I saw at my local dealer was $39k after the dealer markup, gas guzzler tax, and $495 pinstripe/wheel lock package.

 

There's 5 pages of the subject matter at C&G, and already 3 pages of here at CZ28.com.

That's 8 pages of crap that can be summed up in just one sentence:

The GTO is not selling as well as expected and that is due, in no small part, to the GTO's bland styling!

We will endlessly argue about what percentage of the lagging sales is due to the bland styling. It's also interesting to note that many GTO fans will not admit to the bolded sentence above. According to some, the GTO's lagging sales is solely due to dealer practices like markups and such, or the fact that GM hasn't shipped as many GTO's to the U.S. as they should have, or other assorted reasons unrelated to a possible flaw in the styling of the GTO.

 

Gran Turismo Orgasmo

 

I personally like the way the GTO looks but my family thinks its a glorified Grand Am or Grand Prix.

If GM wants to sell these cars it should change the nose and dual kidney grills to something more unique worthy of its price tag. Power alone doesn't justify the higher price to some buyers unfortunately.

90% of the time you aren't going to be doing 1/4 mile runs with this car. You will just be driving it and you want people to admire it even when its not doing 100mph. Its styling is very cookie cutter Pontiac.

 

I too, like the way the GTO looks as it currently stands. It is very understated, bland if you will, but it is attractive nonetheless. Looking back, if you want to be impartial, without clouded vision, GTO's weren't really all that outlandish. In it's heyday it looked very contemporary. The only version of GTO I would call overt, or over the top is the Judge. The "plain" GTO offered in the years the Judge was available, for me look bland in comparison, attractive, but bland. But that's just my opinion. The Judge of the day was the equivalent of the now departed WS-6 - completely over the top style-wise, but in comparison to offerings from, say Chrysler, even the Judge was somewhat tame looking. Don't get me wrong, I'd kill for a Judge - given the skyrocketing prices for the car, I may have to kill to get one, but I digress.

Yes, the car is bland looking, if by that you mean contemporary. It is, pretty much as it was. I still like the car very much but it can be improved upon. The 05 treatment may be interesting, we'll have to wait and see. I think it still waaaay too early to call it a failure though.

 

I might very well be wrong, but for every dealer who is creating some excitement around the GTO, how many are not? Or the other way around. It would be good to get some Pontiac dealer survey to see what exactly is happening. There is always a dealer who marks up cars. And then there's always someone who is doing something to advertise the GTO. What's the overall picture, though?

We read on many occasions here in this forum about how a number of members saw incredible markups on those cars. We saw one on ebay for sale for about $40,000. Then someone also had an experience with a dealer who steered the customer away from the car. If the dealer himself does not believe in the product, why acquire it?

And on another note, the dealer that you speak of - was his campaign successful? Did he sell any cars? Or was it all wasted with 0 sales?

 

I don't think it is anywhere near overpriced. Mid 13 sec ¼ miles, 350hp, gobs of tq, good quality, attractive interior, IRS all around, usable back seat, etc... That's a lot of car for your dollar. With the 400hp Ls2, it should be a bargain at 33k. I personally love this car, but would have a hard time passing up a G35 coupe, STi, used ls-1 camaro SS, or Cobra at/near that price, and I think that’s where most of us stand. Too many other options.

But i agree with everyone on the bland styling. It is attractive, but it is bland. Cars like the BMW' 3 series, etc... could pull the bland thing off (because it is expected), but Pontiac can't. This is supposed to be the “excitement” division. Remember that everyone will try and link this car to the original. People want to see dual exhaust exiting on different sides, they want to see scoops; they want to see a move aggressive styling, and so on. I guess people want it to live up-to to the GTO hype.

 

BINGO!!!
Same here in NC.
I see more Vette ads on TV than GTO, and the off-the-lot costs are less. I guess true gear-heads have put a price on a rear-seat, and it isn't worth $3-5k for them in their lifestyle.
Outside appearance, recognition, and curb appeal - it's a no-brainer.

One question...
We are saying the prices will drop on the 04 GTO once the 05's start hitting the lots. I agree with this, but now think about the next step... how many buyers are out there, and what will happen to demand for the 05's if 15,000 buyers suddenly jump into '04's? It's like damming a river - there's upstream and downstream effects on a car when you surge the supply/demand chain. Will the 05's begin to stack up like the 04's did? Will dealers try to gouge the 05 buyer due to the new styling/HP?
Just thinkin' out loud.