Don't put Monte Carlo and Lumina/Impala into the same boat as GTO. Lumina/Impala/Monte Carlo has mass appeal, but not necessarily enthusiasts' appeal. GTO actually has the appeal of majority of enthusiasts.

GTO is a car that most performance enthusiasts asked for, save the name. It has:
1. RWD
2. powerful V8
3. Option of 6-speed.
4. Great handling and IRS.
5. Better visibility / ergonomics than F4.
6. Coupe, not 2+2 seater, with usable back seats.

We want RWD/V8 performance vehicles. Seeing as there is currently no F5, nor are there any plans for immediate/future production of it, making available a car such as Monaro coupe here is something that we ask[ed] for. Again, save for naming the car GTO <sigh>.

Hopefully it won't get spoiled by any posts here. [edit] [/edit]

[This message has been edited by muckz (edited July 01, 2002).]

 

I wasn't insinuating that the cars were of the same class or caliber, I was making a point about resurrection of old names and how they don't ever end up representing their legend-making ancestors. That was all I was saying.

YUP - There you go! I fit squarely into that category as well. I don't see why all the others have such a big stigma about this? Our dissention is not due to any performance issues, it's the styling based on the name. Change one or the other, and we should all be happy. Quite simple, isn't it? (muckz, you realize that you may be heckled and have stones cast at you if I declare you a "con"-man, and pick you to be on my team, right? LMAO!)

I'm not sure I buy into the "we asked for it" thing as much as Lutz and the boyz saw fruit in the neigbors yard and decided to pick it... quick. I do think Lutz realized that NO RWD V8 for GM would have been unforgiveable, and this was the fastest/cheapest solution.

BTW, I would expect nothing less than a few arousing posts, but I'm actually kind of getting used to the abuse! Kind of sick, huh?

 

Well, I don't know if that constitutes me in the con crowd. Maybe there are 2 groups of cons.

First crowd. Most everyone who attacked GTO attacked it on the basis that it was Grand Prix and Grand Am, and basically trashing for the lack of innovation, etc.. etc... I have a very fair analogy for you: LT1 Camaro and Geo Storm are practically the same car by your standards.

The other crowd likes the upcoming car, but would have it named something else.

I personally do not have a problem with the car named GTO, in my opinion it has the meat to live up to the heritage. But because of all the commotion that it stirs among true purists (for whatever reasons, be it styling or lack of hood tach) I would stay away from naming it such if I had a say in GM. Of course, we all know that it would be equivalent of speaking to the great wall of China.

 

This thread proves my point that unhappy people are always the one that are heard. the poll on my site is nearing 1000 votes and 80% of those who voted love the design. In that poll less than 15% actually don't like the car. I am willing to bet that an LS1 Camaro would have a lower appoval rating in a similar poll. I doubt that GM will have trouble selling these cars I am wondering how many people who are complaining on here would actually buy one if it was more inovative...given the $35K MSRP is will probally have and dealer mark ups.

------------------
Branden-Founder www.GMInsidenews.com
The #1 GM News Site on the Net!
1995 Firebird A4
White with red leather
1979 Firebird Formula SOLD!!! 8/2001
Visit my homepage!

 

DUDE! I though it was just me...although I think that the 2004 GTO is a decent looking car but I though that I was the only one who thought it looks like a souped-up Grand Prix.But hell...but i'm just glad it doesnt look like that ugly *** Aztek and I doubt very seriously that it would take the place of the F-Body (in my opinion two of the coolest American cars ever made LOL).

 

maybe you aren't old enough to appreciate a nice coupe like this. It reminds me of how the GTO looked just like the Le Mans and Tempest back in the day. Wow, what a coincidence.

Okay while I was not born during the muscle car era, I still prefer the styling of the "old-school" GTO judge and other cars from that era. GM needs to get back to it's roots and design a real muscle car and leave the imports where they are because in 30 years I hope not to see a re-worked Honda civic being called a Firebird or Camaro.

 

I beg to differ. Pontiac needs to stop trying to keep up with the Jones's (BMW Mercedes-Benz etc)and build another kick-*** muscle car.They [pontiac] needs to learn that
those European styling cues that they have been tinkering with for the past few years are not working for them.

 

I really do not see much, if at all, european cues in any of Pontiac's lineup. Especially the Azztek, the laughingstock of design (not engineering, but design). Edit: Solstice is a good example - while it has that european appeal, it still looks american to me.

You also have to keep in mind that any transition takes time, and since it's something new (european styling) for GM, I'm sure it'll take them twice as long. Plus, they're GM, so double that time again.

Some of the upcoming vehicles, in my opinion, are very good at keeping American styling with something of an appeal to europeans.

Mind you, european styling is good only on their flagship vehicles (Audi, Mercedez, BMW, Aston Martin, Jaguar <subjective>, etc..), there are a lot of middle- and low-class vehicles that are quite ugly, some of them beat Azzteks by a long shot. I certainly wouldn't want THAT to influence Pontiac.

Edit: just out of the blue, why does GM try to do european styling? What is wrong with true american styling, especially the muscle car era of the late 60's and early 70's? European styling will wear out here eventually, then people will be asking for true american heritage.

[This message has been edited by muckz (edited August 08, 2002).]

 

Actually I think they are going for American heritage..just got to build on it..the ball is rolling..case in point..Thunderbird, GT40, and Mustang..Amercan heritage..
D/C..PT cruiser, Prowler new Charger, stuf like that..
GM..umm umm ..ohh the vette...the T/A is american all the way..SS Camaro..umm..SSR?? maybee..
BUT Caddy..big bad caddies..soo what if they are SUV's..the Escalade is AWSOME!..so it is gaining ground..just need more AMERICAN muscle..the GTO will be better..and an LS1 CTS...can you say easy 500HP caddy..ohh yea... BMW eat your heart out..corvette Fbody tech with all the aftermarket stuff..in a caddy..I would want one..
GM is comming around..soon..isnt there supposed to be 7 RWD cars atthe next auto show..??

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thanks
David Morgan
the "Over Drive Gang"
94 Z28 A4, K/N FIPK!,AIT Relocator,TB bypass,99 SS MAF Airfoil,HPP+, Shiftkit,Cutout, Flowmaster 80 series American Thunder Exhaust with 3" Chrome tips GMS Strut Tower Brace, GMS Sub Frame Connectors AND 93-96 GM Export Tail Lights! GTS Headlight Covers and Tail covers.

http://overdrive-gang.tripod.com

Check it out !! you might know some of the cars, or my friends.and a few of their rides frequent the pages of muscle car mags

Congrats Tony L. of the "ODG" Owner of The BBC 6SP 81 Malibu

Making Hot Rod Mags top 10 cars of 2001!!

 

I skimmed over all 9 pages and I still can't understand how this topic is a 9 page thread LOL!.

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'93 Camaro Z28 Automatic with a ZL1 hood.
No bottle.
No blower.
383 cubic inch serving of horsepower...hold the rice please.
Thats all you need to know.
ICQ: 23984221
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Disclaimer: The opinions expressed by me are not necessarily supported or indicative of the Government of Canada or any other Federal Employee.

 

as far as the GTO goes expect something big...not news based coming from GMI in the next week or two

------------------
Branden-Founder-www.GMInsidenews.com-The #1 GM News Site on the Net!
1995 Firebird A4 White with red leather! SOLD 1979 Firbird Formula 400HO!
Visit my homepage!

 

Brandon - what's up with GMI at the moment? Got a page saying that the domanin had been suspended?

 

http://web.camaross.com/bb/Forum16/HTML/035795.html

I had to cancell the account yesterday to get off the server that never worked anyway. I am waiting on network solutions to fix my DNS's then I will be running on Zanaes server.

The good thing is it has allowed me to move full steam ahead on my new project.

Hey Docromin do you know alot abou Manaro history? If so can you email me at branden_firebird79@yahoo.com?

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Branden-Founder-www.GMInsidenews.com-The #1 GM News Site on the Net!
1995 Firebird A4 White with red leather! SOLD 1979 Firbird Formula 400HO!
Visit my homepage!

[This message has been edited by formula79 (edited August 10, 2002).]