I OBVIOUSLY was speaking about owning a Grand Prix.....

So much for raising the maturity level of this debate.

We're ALL waisting our breath here anyway, GM is going to do whatever the beancounter tell them anyway....

 

NOBODY has compared these 2 cars in real life. Period. The front is similar, but after all it's a Pontiac. See my previous post.

 

Because people keep saying that it looks like a Grand Prix. Some of you guys believe that it looks like a GP, and that's OK. But when the new GP comes out in 2004 (the same year as the GTO), they won't look anything alike.

And I think what guionM was trying to say is that everybody here loved the lines and styling of the G-force. But when that type of styling execution was used on the GTO, you hated it.

Let's face it; you guys just hate the idea of a new GTO period. Probably wouldn't matter what it looked like. You have strong emotional feelings about the old car and these emotions just don't translate well into words. That's OK. We've all been there. It's frustrating.
I guess you don't have to like/buy the car. That's OK, too. I'm fairly confident you guys will be in the minority however.

 

Obviously, none of us "cons" are saying the GTO will simply have a GP nose welded on....but if you can't see the "nearly" identical fascia....then I can't help you. Of course ALL we have to base this on is GM's "official" sketch....they haven't given us anything else.


To say that we simply "hate" the GTO is just not true.....please read what we have been saying before you simple jump to your own mis-guided conclusions......I've said over and again that I think the Monaro/GTO will be a great car.

 

Doug,
I know you like the actual car. I'm talking about the notion of a new GTO. I'm getting the feeling that this is the whole crux of the problem.

 

I've decided to simply keep repeating this until the "pros" understand my position..........

Are you really happier with GM's front fascia/hood design than the one DutchInjun came up with?

Please understand this also.....when I heard that the GTO was coming back......and as a really great car...I was excited as a kid at X-mas......but when I saw the sketch, I realized it was only getting the generic version of the Pontiac corporate design. I KNOW GM wouldn't spent a ton to re-do the Monaro, but it wouldn't have cost hardly anymore to do something like Dutch's version....but let's be honest, it had MUCH more to do with "corporate" design than money....THAT's my beef! Are you happy with GM's effort on the 35th Anniv. Camaro? (Most here threw a fit) Are you happy with GM's new Silverado "SS"?? I could name dozens more half-hearted attempts...not to mention our beloved f-bodies!!....I thought/hoped/believed GM was a LEADER in the automotive industry NOT a follower. But their self-admitted lag in getting into the SUV market cost them billions....when will they LEARN?

Plain and simple, I'm just trying to help to drag them kicking and screaming back into a leadership role.......

 

What I'm realizing the problem is here...

All these people are begging for a new GTO that looks like the old GTO, a limited edition specialty car that's all it's own.

So you guys really want a GM Prowler? Are you going to shell out $45,000 for it, too? All these people want it to be more limited, more specialty...so more EXPENSIVE.

I'd be willing to bet that 90% of you wanting the more expensive more gaudy GTO would point at it and go "YEAH THAT'S THE PONTIAC I LIKE" and continue driving whatever it is you drive now, just because it'd become unaffordable at that point.

We really need another gimmick car like the SSR? Or the PT Cruiser or Bug?

It'd be novel and cute and there'd be an initial rush, then people would realize that it's tacky and lame, and wish that GM would come up with a new idea.


Chrysler has the Viper and the Prowler (or had the Prowler) to put people into Neons. I for one would rather see a GTO that I could maybe afford, not a GTO that looks really cool but I can never afford, but yay Pontiac let's go buy a Sunfire. No thanks.

And the first person to go "Well GM should make an affordable GTO that looks retro and performs great and also watches the kids when I'm tired and cleans itself" can please walk off a cliff.

So "that was then, this is now" but it needs to be more retro and look like the old GTO?

Oooooooooooook.

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Jason

<A HREF="http://camaroz28.cardomain.com/id/munche" TARGET=_blank>1997 A4 Z28 "Mongoose"
</A>

<A HREF="http://www.iz-us.com/images/cars/cougar/" TARGET=_blank>New Project: 1969 Mercury Cougar 351W
</A>

[This message has been edited by MunchE (edited June 28, 2002).]

 

Sure they will look alike, because even after the next gen Grand Prix comes out there will still be hundreds of thousands of 1997-2003 Grand Prix's that will be running around on the roads that will look very similar to the 'newly' styled GTO...

[This message has been edited by Darth Xed (edited June 28, 2002).]

 

You're not listening........IF they had done something even slightly similar to Dutch's design, I wouldn't say a word, but they chose to play it safe and use a dated, 5 year old "corporate" design. I hate tacked on scoops too.......why would anyone want a "gaudy" car?? Please tell me what's wrong with Dutch's front design (the first pic that loads on his site)....to me, it screams GTO and Pontiac....and doesn't look gaudy at all.

Here, I'll make it easy for you.....which one would you prefer?? http://www.indycamaro.com/images/GTOfronts.jpg

My point is GM's propensity to follow and not lead, to play it safe and not be a leader....look at the Silverado SS....could have at least met the bar raised by the Lightning, but no, play it safe and just make it 'good enough'.

You can lead without going over the top in design and engineering...GM chooses to hide behind the stockholders purse strings.


[This message has been edited by Doug Harden, Pres CICC (edited June 28, 2002).]

 

Personally, I find those two cars to be pretty similar looking. They both have that wide opening on the bottom, and the headlights are similar in shape (ok, so they could actually be seperate insead of the one large lens with the black cover, but hey, theres not a big difference). All they'd need to do is recess the grill a little and square it off, and add that part protruding that extends onto the hood (which, in my opinion, would look pretty tacky on a real car). Then they move the fog lights into that large opening in the middle, and they'd have a fairly good approximation of that. But who says that is the be all end all of drawings? What if people like the official rendering better then that drawing? There are a lot of minor things they could have done with it, but didnt for whatever reason. I think it looks pretty damn good the way it is, obviously there are people that disagree, and thats great, its called free will. But whether you like the styling or not, I dont think you can disagree that this is very much a GTO, a good performing car, but still looking like the rest of the line (just like the classic GTOs).

[This message has been edited by Big_Z (edited June 29, 2002).]

 

You can't just throw a retro bumper and hood on a 2002 model year car and expect it to look right. Who wants some Frankenstein car because it has to have hood scoops? That dutch injun illustration is a totally different car--not a touched up Monaro which is the reality of the situation. As others explained, were we to receive a completely redesigned, "original" GTO it would cost as much as a Corvette. Then what? That's not what a GTO is. It's not a trophy piece or unattainable car for most people. It's priced right where it will be; it looks right the way it will be (in fact, the more I look at it now, the less I see Grand Prix); it adheres to the mission statement GM has imposed and to the history of the car it borrows its name from.

 

I don't find those two cars to be similar at all.

Let me just say that I'm glad the GTO is coming back...and considering the speed with which GM is bringing us the Monaro based GTO, I guess it is understandable that this is the best we can expect for now.

But.....man oh man oh man....Dutch's rendition just screams modern GTO and I would like it even more if it looked like that!

 

Neither. !!TED!!'s design and some other concepts are better though.

 

Know what a cue is?? A few would be nice, doesn't have to be too much.

 

A cue... hmmmm... Cue stick? Cue ball? Billiards and pool? LOL!

I think you mean "design cue" or "styling cue", basically the same as a design element or characteristic... something that can be referenced. Please don't say: "That car needs more cues" because that doesn't really make sense.

Oh, and some of you guys act like this is YOUR project and YOUR car. It is not. GM is importing this car, and will use whatever name they wish. You should be used to this by now... it could be worse, so stop b¡tching.

It is also BASED on the Monaro, and the chances of it being designed retro at this time are NONE. And what year GTO should this look like? I'm sure you would have a big debate on that too, because you want it to be the perfect car that you picture in your little heads. Nobody is going to be satisfied!

Me for instance, I think this GTO is perfect. The fact that it looks similar to a Grand Prix is good... its a fast car that won't attract attention. More of a sleeper than a sports car or pony car. I guess this car is aimed at an older market though, maybe you aren't old enough to appreciate a nice coupe like this. It reminds me of how the GTO looked just like the Le Mans and Tempest back in the day. Wow, what a coincidence.

If you are SO worried about what the nose of a 2004 GTO will look like, I suggest YOU get a job at GM and help them FIX this terrible error that has disgraced the GTO name.

Lets look at YOUR problem with the car...

"It looks like the current Grand Prix, which a GTO cannot look like!!! It needs to look like an old GTO. But its a perfectly good car, and it would be OK if it was called Le Mans or something like that..."

Well hey, the GTO looked like the Le Mans and Tempest... you say you want a true GTO and all this other BS, but what it boils down to is that you want it to LOOK the way YOU want it to. Obviously you guys couldn't give a crap about the actual car, and accept the car and the way it looks, which some of you say is good, but not for a GTO. Did you b¡tch when the GTO first came out, and was based on the Tempest??? Or the Le Mans later on??? No, because thats the way it was. GTO was all about the performance...

You seem to think that the GTO name is being disgraced in this situation, just because the car isn't friggin' retro enough... oh how sad.

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