You have just earned yourself the assclown award for the day. Be proud.

 

Rant Mode On:

WHY does nearly every thread have to be hijacked by one or two people that bring it right back down to Z28 versus SS.

IZ28: I do not like to single people out on the boards....however, you leave me no choice.

Your opinions have been noted. many times. I believe GuionM had other issues in mind.....and it is obvious (to me, at least) that you do not wish to hear any other point of view other than your own. Further, I take exception to your statement about Camaro Managers knowing the history of Camaro. I have several file drawers full of memos and documents concerning the Z28 and the SS.......from the people who designed, engineered and built the car over 35 years. I don't think you do.

Now.....your comments were noted well over two years ago. You have beat the dead horse to where there is NOTHING left of him other than a greasy spot.

PLEASE.......move on...........

 

That's because most people still can't see the forest through the trees... i.e. they don't get the big picture!

The discussion should not be about whether or not the Top Dawg 5th Gen Camaro is called "SS" or "Z28".

The discussion should not be about whether or not two performance versions of the 5th Gen Camaro should be offered.

The discussion should be about Camaro period.

 

This is confusing and makes no sense.

Quote:

And you keep mentioning Z28 buyers wanting that perfomance for cheap but they would be willing to pay. Its like you make it as if the Z28 wasn't the most expensive Camaro for more than 3/4's of the Camaros public availablility.

This is true....because Z28 was the top model...it is no longer...live with it. GM is slapping SS on every top end product...Camaro will be no exception.

Quote:

The 4th Gen is not the example or Gen to follow. 1 thing I can say is that I and alot of people do not want the Z28 to continue like it was in the 4th Gen and if it does you can bet alot of us real Camaro enthusiats or (read here) potential customers will be pissed, and I will be at the top of that list.

The 4th Gen Z28 was the fastest, best handling, best built Camaro ever...that simple.

Just because you own a Camaro does not make you a likely customer. The auto Industry generall does not consider someone driving around a 15 year old third gen a likley customer for a $27K + car. Not cutting on you...just a reality check. I have noticed alot complainers have old cars and are not really what an automaker considers new car buying material.

Quote:

I'd rather see it left out or just used for something special than be the way it was. It never was or should be the SS's b***h in everything or a car that gets upgraded into an SS.

You sound about two years old...what next you gonna tell us how the bully beat you up at school? Performance wise I would not say that the 4th Gen Z28 was really even a step down in performance they were so close.

Quote:

A Camaro manager should know what to really do with the model designations, know their history, and place them accordignly and in a way true to their history, that's what we are looking for here, not backwards and no revisionizm.

A Camaro enthusiast should know when to shut up a show some respect....The 4th gen could have had alot of bad things happen to if not for Scott.

Personal insults just make you look even dumber....

Quote:

Practically all the things we have ever brought up for the Z28's case has been inarguable, proven by GM in either brochures, ads, how the cars were made/bulit, price, which was top for more years, which is Camaro specific, and order of importance to the Camaro. I'd do it right next time, because even I am getting tired of arguing over this and feel that it just divides us over something that we should not be arguing about or even have to think about. It should be handled in a way that we can all or almost all be happy with, but NOT like the 4th Gen.

I personally have never heard anyone question why an SS is top model outside of this board.

In reality 99% of the buying public assumes that if it says SS it is GM's top perforance model for that brand. Why? Because it has been attached to many great machines....(many arguably undeserving of the legend they have). Aside from the Z28, what legend did the Z cars leave? A hopped up Lumina?

Quote:

If F**d can do things like this right or make lower production super-models, GM can, and by themselves.

Yeah since Ford is such great shape now....hey thier stock is up to $11.00!

Quote:

I'd also try to make the next Camaros really feel like they have lots of TQ the way they used to years back and try to match the sharp high G IROC-Z handling/feel, and let them look good and be cool this time. There's reasons that you feel a bias against 4th Gens, (you're not the only 1) lets not let that happen again.

Yeah since a 4th gen is such a turn...I amsure you make LS1's look helpless with you might IROC...I can fell the TQ now

I also feel that anyone who has not bought a Camaro in the last 10 years just needs to shut up. Maybe if more people had bought the car it would still be around and this forum wouldn't exist. Old Camaros are great...but they are just that...old Camaro. Times change and for a Camaro to be sucessful it has to also. GM cares about the future, and what did well in the future. The Z28 Vs. SS argument is dumb, and GM has a few thinsg to worry about first...like building the new car.

On a personal note...I really hope anyone reading this does not assume he is expressing feelings all potental Camaro buyers have, because in reality his opinions are the runt of the bunch

 

Also questioning Scott's knowledge of history is just wrong...I mean the man wears a Camaro tie that even has an chrome grille second generation Camaro (second gen camaro..not tie) on it...if that's not devotion I do not know what is.

 

IZ28:

You are not getting the point and you are upsetting a lot of people with your posts.

Please stop posting in threads like these.

 

The all-knowing one has spoken . It's one thing to have opinions, but it's another to present them in such a brash, arrogant, and holier than thou way. Come on IZ28 this is a place to talk about cars, not stroke your own ego. We are extremely lucky to have Scott read and post on our board, and to belittle him and question HIS knowledge about the Camaro of all things.....not cool.


-Mike

 

Minor change of subject:

Are there actually 3rd gen owners out there who think a 305 or 350 TPI has any prayer in the world of running with an LS1?

From the stock vs. stock dyno runs I've seen, LS1's have greater area under the curve all the way up.

 

Yea I agree NEVER question the god of the Fbody.
Ok lets face it Scott you may be the Camaro father but by the time you came along the Firebirds look just like the Camaros. I have heard you say it that the Firebirds are Camaros with the Pontiac option. But by now you are the God of the Fbody with out guys like you the fbody would have maybe died out in the 70s along with several other cars.

I agree there should never be a Z/28 Vs SS issue here. Damn the car is the same the only diff. is the Option Package. Some of you guys that beleive that there is a Z vs SS should really get your car's tail pipe out of your mouth & stop sucking in the fumes & get on with your life. Now if you want to take Camaro Vs Mustangs then you have something to talk about.

Now on to another thing I have full Faith in Scott & the GM HighPerformance Department on bringing out cars that we will be not just wanting to drive & own but begging for them to make more.
The new GTO is one step in the right move.

Oh Scott if GM has anymore guys like you hiding in the woodworks. They need to get them out in the open. If they dont then they need to give you what ever you want to make sure you will never leave.

Krazzycowgirl
PNWCC south area rep

 

Ya got to be joking There is NO way the TPI 350 is better then the LS1 or even the LT1. Yes you can do more with the Base TPI 350 but the LS1 is a way better engine.

Oh by the way yes I am a Owner of 2 third gen cars. a Project 82 Indy pace car one of 34 found with 4 disc brakes & a 87 Iroc-z one of only a few that I have seen that can run mid 14s 99% stock.

 

Can't speak for anybody else but personally I'm not that crazy.

 

Eh, they don't care if the 305 or the 350 were dogs. One of my old friends had a 305 and it ran 16.99. That's only after he took out the spare, jack, disconnected the exhaust piping between the y pipe and the cat.

The 3rd gen people here care little for the speed of the LS1. The use handling the make their arguments even though the stock handling of the 02 SS was only SLIGHTLY worse if at all. Their arguments circle around a supposed 0.02 difference in skidpad numbers, and "better looks of the 3rd gen."

 

....guys and gals....we're straying off topic here again and into the abyss that is in-fighting and arguement for arguement's sake.

Bashing third gens isn't any better than bashing 4th gens....let it go....please?!

350 TPI cars were torquey to say the least but ran out of breath at 5k rpms.....my 1986 IROC handled decently, but rode like a log truck....but, we all knew that....

Back to topic please....

 

I wouldn't go that far now! 3rd gen guys are not the enemy. Personally third gen cars feel a little nimbler to me, but then the 4th gen cars are a lot faster (and may actually handle better, regardless of 'feel'). So can't we all just get along?

(Which, incidentally, is why I'm trying to save up and buy an LS1 for my '87 before the end of this year )

(Started typing this reply before I saw yours, Doug--sorry.)

 

Same here CMC I like my 87 but I know the diffance between real power & great handablity. My car can never out run or out turn my husbands 95 but you know what i like the style of the 3rd gens better.