falchulk

Lets think hard about this a second...the pre-2013 shelbys put down roughly the same performance numbers as the ZL1 from what I have seen. The ZL1 gets a very slight edge. Why would Ford put all this money into this refresh to be slower around the track? Ford also had the luxury of knowing that Chevy was building the ZL1 to compete with the pre-2013 car. Ford has lessons learned from both the new GT500 testing and the Boss testing. If they come out slower, thats just bad engineering.

This kind of reminds me of the 2011 refresh. There was a million reasons why the car would not compete with the SS. People were shocked then and maybe again.

Z28Wilson

I don't remember anyone being shocked at the '11 GT or thinking it wouldn't compete with the SS. I think it was pretty much universal thinking that a car with a new 5.0 pushing 400+ horses and a couple hundred less pounds would compare quite well to the heavier car with 400/426.

guionM

The issue isn't about whether the GT500 is faster or the which has a cheaper interior or which vehicle feels like junk or not.

The issue is that this sales person hit all the points that make the car buying experience horrible. No test drive until you buy it?!! That's an issue I experience when I was looking to buy a GTO 6 or 7 years ago!

The lack of knowledge and reasoning ability?! Telling someone that the ZL! drives like crap while not letting them drive a GT500 is a golden ticket inviting that potential buyer to go to a Chevrolet dealer to drive a ZL1. Keep in mind that ZL1 is likely to be the most powerful thing this potential buyer has ever driven, and with no point of reference, he's going to buy the ZL1.

The guy is arrogant, and much of what he says reminds us of the worst in new car sales people.

THAT'S what's maddening here.


Oh.... that's something I am aware of.

There is absolutely no way to put that much power down through street tires, no matter how they're made. Camaro needs a fairly complex computer program to overcome this and get all the power to the ground.

King Moose SS

So... I went to Fords website to option out a GT500, and for the life of me can't find the rear diff cooler, and the engine transmission/engine oil cooler, and other options that Ford said they were going to make as options on the GT500 to compete with the ZL1.

The SVT package is $3,500 but you get different wheels, Bilstein shocks, and a torsen diff. Anyone know when Ford is going to add them as options?

falchulk

Oh, absolutrly there was. Search this board and camaro5 and you will find pleanty.

bossco

Hopefully Ford will add the coolers in the perf pack. A base GT500 w/ perf pack would be about 2 grand more after you factor in the ZL1's GG tax (somebody can split hairs on this but unless a dealer is going to spot you the difference in the GG tax, the ZL1 has one and the GT500 doesn't).

And honestly I dont see why not, Ford has to have a pretty good margin on the S-197 car in general , especially with the GT500.

Then again Ford does like you to option things up.

94LightningGal

The Track Pack isn't showing up on the Build and price yet. It is common for their to be alot of errors when those first come up.

It will be in there.

What I find funny, is that on some sites, people actually think that a few coolers will add enough weight to the GT500 to make it pretty close to the ZL1. Thats funny stuff.

WhiteHawk

That is funny, because ZL1 will leave it in the dust regardless. Or did I miss Ford posting the ring times? Yea, didn't think so.

The ZL1 is about 6 seconds faster than the current GT500 at VIR (with posted video). So if the 2013 GT500 convertible is 3.5 seconds faster then the current GT500 coupe (per Ford's press release and video), then, well, you do the math. And they are not even at the most challenging track in the world yet.

-Geoff

Bob Cosby

Hehehe. This is thread is funny.

Marc 85Z28

So looking on Ford's site, to equip the GT500 with the more desirable 3.31 gears and the comparable cooling equipment you need to first order the SVT Performance Package for $3495, then add the Track Package (not available on convertible) for another $2995?

So we're looking at a 650HP Mustang for $65K that win run door to door with a Camaro that costs $10K less and is 70HP weaker?

JasonD

Did they just add the Track Package option? When we talked about this over the weekend in our latest podcast (listen here:
Podcast #341 – Camaro ZL1 versus Mustang GT 500 Pricing. | CamaroZ28.Com) it wasn't in the BYO section.

I'd hang onto that "door to door" comment until some track times come in, but that it just me. I am really interested in "official" track times.

Also, on the other side of the coin, things that can be done to the CTS-V LSA can be done on the ZL1 LSA...and the common thing seems to be pulley and a tune, which is said to be a significant jump in power...I heard 45 so I would say 20 to be reasonable. I think I saw an article where a company can port the blower housing and get more power as well. Something like that.

Then on the third side of the coin , what can be done to that new GT500 engine to put the power closer to the 700 mark. Holy crap.

Seven hundred.

Marc 85Z28

It's there... Only on the coupe, and it's available only after selecting the Performance Package.

ZZtop

The Ring times are pretty much irrelevant, too many variables.

The VIR times are VERY relevant though as they were both done by factory track rentals with factory hot shoe drivers! 2:52 for the ZL1 vs. 2:58 for the 2011 GT500 with SVT Performance Pack.

However, your comment about the convertible being 3.5 seconds faster than the coupe was at Streets of Willow so it is rather irrelevant since we don't have ZL1 times there.

The bottom line guys, the ZL1 is shockingly quick around a race track and the GT500 would be doing well to keep up with it.

The GT500 is going to DESTROY the ZL1 at the drag strip and on the highway. The 13' now has launch control to help with the traction issues mentioned earlier and anyone who goes to the drag strip seriously runs some sticky tires anyway. Even the 11' and 12' GT500's have gone high 11's otherwise stock.

I look at the cars as almost two different animals. That said, if the GT500 with SVTPP and Track Pack can match or best the ZL1 around a race track, well then the GT500 will be the king, albeit at a significantly higher price tag.

WhiteHawk

To summarize - Ford is selling a dyno queen. GM is selling a racecar. Like Al said. You want to race that? It is going to cost extra.

-Geoff

JasonD

Yup, I see that now...but was it that way last Friday? When we were building one as we did the show, I don't recall seeing that Track Pack.