That is a hard call to make. As I alluded earlier, some magazines have posted very average 0-60 and 1/4 mile numbers driving the previous SVT offerings and the GT500. Probably due to lack of available traction, not lack of power. That's why I'd say the new 911 was able to out accelerate the ZR1 in the 1320. Traction. What does traction have to do with this? Adding more and more power will eventually fail to solve the problem. Sooner rather than later I think.

Back to the Oz 5.4 issue...this is all conjecture, and we all know that, but the new 5.0 Stang is a whole new animal and an unknown. It is boasting better fuel economy than it's rival. And to be honest, the 4.6L V8 in the 2010 (and previous) Mustangs overachieved in my opinion, whereas the 5.4 versions underachieved, at least in stock form. (Tunes and pulleys are a whole different story, morning glory.) And the GT was still close enough to the SS to make it a contest, even if it couldn't win. Much like the SS vs. the GT500.

Prepare for the worst, and if it isn't that bad, we'll be pleasantly surprised. FWIW, I think the big displacement/torquier V8 in the Camaro will leave it's driver more room for error when rowing the gears. But that is a WAG, and not even a very well educated one at that.

 

The new 5.0 is an unknown. To base our assumptions off of the Oz 5.4 that underperformed despite having 400+HP would be a mistake, I think. Would assuming you can outrun a 305HP LS1 Camaro just because you can beat a LT1 by half a nose be a safe assumption? It's just a 20HP difference, right??? The new 5.0 car is boasting better MPG as well (threw that in just for Steve-o). Will it translate to the real world? Remains to be seen. Just like the car's actual performance numbers.

I think it's best to be prepared for the worst, then when it isn't so bad we'll be pleasantly surprised. Or maybe it will be that bad and the entire Camaro fan base will start a group purchase on Prochargers and two-stage nitrous kits just to keep up (not really).

LOL...I redid this post when I couldn't find the one above it. Now it's there and I posted some of the same ideas twice. Forum>Dave.

 

I'd say it's something called a pretty-darned-good educated guess. Since none of us have driven a Mustang with the new 5.0 it's all we have. Factor weight, gearing and power and go from there. We already know most magazine direct comparos prefer the feel of the current Mustang on a track. Camaro ends up being faster around a circuit thanks to its 100+ HP advantage. That is virtually gone beginning this summer.

At any rate, you seem to make plenty of "educated guesses" about ride quality vs. Mustang so I don't see how one estimate is any less legitimate than the other.

 

I for one don't appreciate someone insulting one of the most respected members on the site. As for why Charlie doesn't own a Mustang, maybe it doesn't suite his personal needs. He has a 3.6 6 speed 1st gen CTS, that I believe he purchased before the Camaro's and most recent Mustang's release. It is 4 doors and RWD, that likely means his needs wouldn't be met by a 2 door low slung coupe. He may be willing to stretch himself into a 2 door, low slung coupe if the car had other attributes but at this time the car he has fits his needs pretty well. As for calling Charlie out on what he drives and then dismissing it when he asks you what you drive; that's pretty poor argumentative tactics.

As for his suggestion that the 2011 5.0 GT will outperform the 2011 SS lets look at some facts:
The 2010 GT is on essentially the same chassis as the 2011 GT. The new engine and transmission are expected to be lighter than the outgoing ones. The Ford released Spec sheet lists the GT 5.0 6 speed stick at 3603 lbs. The GM released Specs sheet lists the 2010 SS 6.2 6 speed stick at 3,860 lbs.

So the 5.0 GT will have about 200 lbs less weight than the SS. It will have 411 hp vs the SS's 422.

So does 200 less lbs make up for a 10 hp gap? I think it does but I am not a racing expert.

Most reviews I have read of the 2010 4.6 GT indicate that it handles extremely well. In fact with the track pack the 2010 GT seems to run very similar (if not better) numbers to the 2010 SS. We know that Ford has reworked the suspension on the 2011 GT, we know that the 2011 Camaro is essentially unchanged. Why shouldn't we assume that in performance measures the 2011 GT will outperform the 2011 SS? Honestly I don't see how you can contest that.

If you want to compare on street livability or handling potholes; sure you can make an argument that the SS will do a better job. But in performance measures, as Charlie was talking about, the current GT either ties or wins every comparison. Why wouldn't an enhanced/revamped model be expected to do better?

For a good breakdown I found Car and Driver's review quite informative.

Edit: Thanks to Z28Wilson for catching my mistake.

 

That's the estimate for the convertible. The coupe is listed at 3603.

I can't believe Mustang will still be tootling around on 235 tires. Chevy put wider shoes on my '94 LT1 Camaro with 135 less horsepower.

 

Dang, SSbaby, I don't think I've seen you be that directly insulting before. Take it easy, bud. I think if you reread your posts in the light of day you might find an apology or two in order. I'm almost inclined to wonder if you'd had a few drinks before posting this stuff...

Anyway, on paper, I too think the Mustang will have a slight edge in performance by most measures. However, one thing that might hold it back is the tire size, which as been mentioned by many others on this site. 235 series tires with a front-biased weight distribution and 400+ hp?

I can't remember, but for some reason I'm thinking the Track Pack will step up to 255s, which will be better. Still, the Camaro has some meaty treads (to go against the Mustang's superior power:weight ratio and better gearing). Why don't we just wait and see at this point?

Oh, and you are right, the Mustang won't be the "better" car in every way or for every person (but note that this is not what Charlie claimed). For me personally, having driven neither, I'm drawn more to the Mustang. The Camaro looks almost like an exotic car by comparison; probably the only other "normal" car that stands out so clearly from surrounding traffic is the Dodge Challenger. I also love the LS3, however good the new 5.0 is; the GM small blocks just kick so much ***. But I just cannot get over the gun slit windows of the Camaro; I really think they botched that from a styling standpoint. I'm also not 100% sold on the rear 3/4 view and rear end. Assuming both offer similar performance and even handling (unfortunately, most of my driving is on relatively straight roads, so a slight advantage of one over the other probably won't matter in the real world), the Mustang's advantages in tidier packaging, ease of use, better visibility, lighter weight, slightly better EPA numbers, somewhat nicer (though less daring and interesting) interior, plus the immediate availability of a convertible (the only way I'd get one) and the fact that Ford is not owned by the feds all make me lean in favor of the Mustang. Though it pains me slightly to say it.

In no way am I prepared to spend nearly $40k on a new car any time soon, however, so I'll have to wait until the cars are on the used market for a few years. By then I'll have plenty of time to decide which convertible I like better, if the Camaro ever shows up.

 

Then dispute them and tell me why.
I can claim whatever I want. If you don't agree, dispute it and explain why. ALL of your claims are personal opinion without even the benefit of any first hand experience - aren't they?
Man up and admit it. You have nothing to bring but personal attacks. And you go to them immediately and without basis. Even your avatar is meant as one. I'd have more respect for you and your "opinions" if you could actually make a case for what you believe, rather than going to vicious personal attacks at the drop of a hat.
Internet rumor, internet fact, and personal experience with both the Mustang and Camaro. How about you?

Yeah, thought so...


Why would you care if I buy a Mustang.... Corvette...BMW... or whatever else you think I should buy. You yourself said it doesn't matter what you drive or I drive. And while we're at it, why do you drive a Toyota (if you are in fact old enough or sober enough to drive)? What's "stopping you" from driving a Zeta?

I don't mind having an interesting debate, that's why I hang out here. But you've got nothing to offer. You insult people's first hand experiences - eventhough you've got none of your own. You denegrate people's purchase choices if they don't go down the GM party line, and yet you drive a Toyota (if you actually drive).


I mean, come on, you're a troll...

 

Actually, no it isn't possible.

You are comparing an extremely long stroked truck engine, to a high revving car engine. The 5.4L was designed as a truck engine, primarily. Its long stroke gives it extremely strong low end torque characteristics, but makes it a "lazy" revver. Frankly, it is not happy at much over 5500rpm.

The new 5.0 has a 7000rpm redline. This tells you that it is a revving engine. For a relatively light car, like a Mustang, it should make for extremely entertaining driving. With its variable valve timing, it should also exhibit good low end torque characteristics.

Thus, it will have the best of all worlds, while maintaining superior fuel economy.

The 5.0 is just a far more modern engine............. on all fronts.

 

Which is why this guy has been on my ignore list for quite some time (and then you guys go and quote his every post ).

Frankly, ignorant posts and insults like his come quite frequently from the fanboy posse and is the main reason I don't post here much anymore. It just isn't worth it. You can't teach self awareness and people like this simply don't know what they don't know. When facts and real world experience are brought up that contradict their known "truths", they resort to insults and rants. Google cognitive dissonance (hmmm... maybe that Psyc minor was worth something).

Why do I post this here? So Jason and Chris can be made aware. Will it matter? Probably not.

Just say no to the troll guys. I know it's hard.



Anyway.... that 2011 Mustang just gets more and more appealing every time we hear something new, doesn't it?

I've been saving with an eye towards a lightly used Z06, but I don't know anymore. I'm more of a ponycar guy than a Corvette guy anyway and a 400hp / 3600 lb (probably less in F-Stock Solo trim) Mustang sounds pretty good to me.

With no malice intended (honestly), I hope this new Mustang will give the Camaro team engineers a great big stick to use when some middle manager wants to continue with the Chevelle sized, gimmicky rolling family room approach on the 6th gen.

 

I think it is a spring thing. All the racers get a little edgy this time of year until they can get the tops down/off and hit the open road!

Bottom line is, when you have a mileage/horsepower/weight/pricing war between two competing cars, everybody wins!

-Geoff

 

I've been a Camaro guy since my formative years.

The 2011 Mustang has caught my attention because it's the first Mustang that I would actually consider buying. Especially considering the areas where I feel Camaro now comes up a bit short.

 

How do you think they got such good gas mileage?

Seriously, the reduction in rotating mass and rolling resistance from the relatively small and light 235 tires is significant.

235 series tires on a 412hp car with aggressive gearing is a FREAKIN JOKE! Good thing they are easy to change!

 

Good idea! Done!

I was a Psyc major myself, and I think you've nailed the diagnosis.

 

Although I think the 2011 Mustang is a nice piece, and I'm especially impressed with the 5.0L 32V Ti-VCT, I'm too much of a die-hard Chevy man to ever consider owning another Ford. If there were no Camaro, I'd probably opt for a Corvette or worst case, Cadillac CTS.

 

So I guess the middle school drama is over now? I think the 235 tires will quickly be replaced by buyers for some more meat in the back. What size tread can you fit in the back of a current gen mustang? I think this car is gonna make pretty good power up top to keep the tires planted better than say the torque an LS3 is making down low even if the 5.0 has TiVVT I doubt it's gonna be pumping that 400ft lb's until after 4k rpm.