No, I agree with Gloria. You are calling me a liar. There is no other way to interpret your comments. I'd get mad, but you're probably a 14 year old, sitting in the basement, on your mom's computer. At least it sure sounds like that to me....

 

What else can one make of your comments when you say one thing and then say the complete opposite the next?

What's your failing? Is it just mood related?

 

Btw, back on topic...

EPA numbers... why do people get so excited about EPA numbers particularly when they do not reflect real world numbers?

 

Ahhh........... so now you are willing to stop the personal insults?? When you have been called out??

Anyway, I would imagine that if the Camaro had the higher EPA ratings, that it would more reflect reality??

EPA ratings are a consistant way of comparing fuel economy. That is all. As it states on the window sticker, it is just an estimate, and your personal results will vary.

 

In all fairness to the childish name calling debate nobody really has compared the Camaro SS to the 2011 Mustang GT officially yet. On paper the GT should have an advantage in many areas but like anything else in the real world someone has to go out and actually extract that performance. Something that's not likely to happen in the confines of this thread.

 

Stop insulting me by veering off topic, will ya? Btw, I didn't ask you for your comment, actually... anybody but you (and Charlie).

 

First tests are supposed to be out next week.

 

My apologies.

You do actually make absolute sense.

I just don't know why each thread needs to be lead down the Mustang GT > Camaro SS argument and Charlie always leads the pack followed by the usual Ford loving disciples.

 

You know, I made a comment which I believe to be factual. If you don't agree, state why.

Instead you've spent the past several hours engaged in bizarre personal attacks.

I feel sorry for you. I hope you are in fact a 14 year old. At least that way you'd have an excuse.

 

Anytime a thead is started around here about the Mustang GT, it is going to lead down the familiar Mustang vs. Camaro road. That is just the nature of the beast. As for one car's superiority to the other car, we'll have to wait and see. By the numbers it's very hard to disagree with Charlie, the Mustang has slightly less HP but it weighs less and has made improvements in just about every measurable area. I'm going to say it'll be a driver's race, but I would give a slight edge to Ford based off the raw numbers. That being said, '03-'04 Cobra acceleration numbers never really impressed outside of brand specific enthusiast magazines.

I think the real issue here is the perception(?) that Camaro can't compete with Mustang in any appreciable way except to increase HP...and it's power levels are already nearing levels that I think are close to diminishing returns. GM can only do so much with the current platform to fight the 2011 Mustang. If Ford's car wins in the magazine comparos (which lets face it, that is a good portion of what we are arguing about here) all GM can do is increase HP levels(again ?). Can they shave weight? Change gearing or tire size? I don't know. It's hard to figure how Team Camaro will strike back if Mustang wins this round.

Finally, I am almost done rambling! But let's keep this in mind: Ford guys will buy Fords and GM guys will buy GM, with very few exceptions. There were no shortage of Mustang buyers back when the LS1 first rolled out and demolished the 2V 4.6. This race will be a lot closer and both are excellent cars.

Thoughts?

 

But all you stated was opinion, with no proof. How could you possibly claim all those wins to Mustang GT without proof? That's my beef with your statement... even if you do think all my attacks are personal despite the fact that all your gripes with Camaro are purely subjective.

You have no basis for your comments except for internet rumors. The official Ford line is different to the rumors we've read yet you chose to ignore that data and claim the Mustang will be better than Camaro in every way. That's an absurd statement if ever there was one. Like I said, let's wait and see before casting aspersions on Camaro.

Btw, the thing I get tired of reading so much is the fact that you won't go out and buy that Mustang you love so much. Why is that? Don't tell me your inner senses are telling you differently? I guess it's a lot easier for you to tell GM to redesign Camaro than it is to go out and buy that Mustang.

So what's stopping you?

 

That's a great post and very level headed. I have no objections with it as you play your cards close to your chest.

I notice you drive a G8. That's a Zeta car... but I can't hear you complaining like some other notables...

If you ever get a chance in the US to sample, say, a 'HSV' Camaro, you'd realize that performance just doesn't end with even bigger horsepower numbers. GM still has certain avenues to exploit with Camaro. It's not the end of the world for GM when the new Mustang lobs.

Let's be clear about that.

 

Yes, I do drive a G8, or I did before I left it in the States for a year to visit lovely Korea. My only complaints with the car would be a rattle in the area of the rear of the cabin, but only in certain temperatures, and what I can only explain as "weak" paint. I swear, my Civic (ugh...) had fewer paint chips and swirls in the whole three years I owned it than my G8 did in my first three months of ownership. Maybe that was just back luck. Then again, I really didn't care about my Civic. It was an appliance.

I hear you on other "avenues". My concern is that these avenues blur the line between an SS that competes with Mustang GT and what a Z28 would offer up to fight the GT500. SS must beat GT at or near the same price point, when similarly equipped (but I'm not sure how the prices compare now to be honest). A SS that beats the GT but costs way (like >5K) more starts to sound less impressive, and starts losing magazine comparisons. Then it starts flame wars on internet forums, which leads to lots of hurt feelings, bruised egos, and strife in general.

But I am rambling again. I would be interested to hear what Charlie or Gloria have to say if they have not abandoned this thread.

 

Before the above mentioned chime in...

Is it possible to form an opinion based on Ford's 5.4L DOHC V8 used in the Fords (FPVs) in Oz? At 315kW and 550Nm (that's 428 bhp and 406 lb-ft) the 5.4l 'Boss' V8 was still underwhelming compared to the Holden/GM Gen III/IV offerings, both in terms of fuel economy and performance.

Is that any guide or am I waaay off beam using that as a yardstick to form opinions on the new 5.0L, prior to its official release?

 

I dunno about Charlie leading a pack or their being Ford disciples but...

I think the threads go down this path due to angst over the fact that the new Mustang stays truer to the formula that the 4th gen F-bodies followed than the new 5th gen does. This site has a ton of 4th gen ownders and thus many find the Mustang appealing.

But we can make another thread to discuss that... How about those EPA numbers?