How so? I mean yeah, if you're going to run a motor at its redline constantly, fuel mileage will be down. I'm not sure what the point is though, understanding that a motor with a 7000 RPM redline could still be more fuel efficient than the one redlining at 6500. Honda has 4 cylinders that rev to 8 grand, are they less efficient than both the 5.0 and the LS3?

Don't mistake me, all things being equal I'd rather have the LS3. Efficient, easily "modable", less complex, torquey. But the Five-Oh won't be a slouch. I still have to laugh at your whining about people making assumptions about the 5.0 and the '11 Mustang in general, yet YOU'VE already seemed to decide that the 5.0 is overrated.

 

Who on God's green earth worries about or measures fuel economy at WOT or at/near redline on the street?

Uncle.

 

It depends.

You probably don't need to rev the LS3 as hard to extract the necessary performance.

DOHC's tend to make their best power at the top of the rev range. If you need to rev the Coyote all the way to 7000rpm to get best performance, it will use way more fuel than if you only need 6500rpm, for example.

Bob's dyno link is interesting in that you notice the rear wheel power of the 5.4L GT is only advantageous near its rev ceiling. But the LS3 feels/is quicker up to that point, in the real world. Race over by that point.

Is that kind of clear?

 

No! Far from it.

I think it will be a good engine.

But let's be realistic. Will it be the second coming of Christ? I don't believe so. I'm not as enthusiastic as some are from the speculation, alone.

 

A lot of modern vehicles' power varies according to conditions, as the engine management system optimizes for temperature, humidity, etc. I don't consider that a bad thing. It just means that the engine builder is producing max power when conditions warrant and throttling back for durability when conditions demand.

If a dyno room doesn't have airflow somewhat comparable to what you'd get driving down the road, that can give lower numbers than you'd get in the car on the road.

I've not read all the tests on the Ford 5.4 in the Aussie press, but I've seen a few, and most were not all that positive about it, preferring the I6 turbo. But maybe the Boss315 is improved from the earlier ones (I've not read Wheels for over a year).

 

Yes it was very rude, and I still feel that I should receive an apology for it. I certainly will not be holding my breath until I get one, as I would surely die.

As for the continuing arguement............ frankly, it makes my head hurt.

The new 5.0 is NOT the 5.4. It is not remotely the same as the 5.4, by any stretch of the imagination. What they have in common is bore spacing, and the number 5.

Thus, to use the 5.4 as a basis of an arguement against the new 5.0 is disingenious at best............ but more than likely just a major case of wishful thinking.

However, what we have learned from this little lesson, is you will not get great fuel economy, if your daily driving is all done at redline. Boy am I glad that I found that out, as it would surely explain my poor mileage to date.

BTW, Mustang production started Monday, and actual tests are due out next week. Then some can sit around and disect the results, so that they can continue to argue about what a bad car it is. (not most here)

 

Don't let that bully bother you Gloria. I'm surprised he hasn't been banned yet.

 

No, I don't believe I owe you an apology at all. You should be apologizing to me for writing the tripe I have to read through.

In regards to the engines, yes, I know they are different engines. But given the Ford Coyote is like the second coming you paint it to be, I was only using relative power and torque figures from an existing Ford V8 powerplant with near identical bore sizes to arrive at potential performance expectations. And fuel consumption expectations.

But no, your pro-Ford bias really does make more sense. I only need to just ask you about how good Ford's future products are and you'll just tell me they're very good.

There's a few good posters I really admire here... teal98, readLT1, 99SilverSS, jg95z28, bossco and 1fastdog are folks I can talk to as an enthusiast, to an enthusiast.

On a relativity scale, you are just (last) below Z284ever on my scale of most disliked posters - only because he drives a GM car. You are both bad news when you continually bag everything that is great with GM or Camaro. Fine, you don't have to like it, but do you have to launch an attack at every opportunity? What's most stupid is the fact that you guys claim to know how good something is without having even seen it... and pass it off as fact.

You and Z284ever definitely owe the forum a huge apology. Take that with an Aussie accent and digest it down your gullet, or is that also too rude for you to take.

 

I say to the moderators, ban me if you feel I've overstepped the boundaries.

But that wouldn't change your ignorance and stubbornness and continual pursuit to transcend every thread into a 'Z284ever knows best' benefit.

For you, it's easier to tell GM they are wrong than it is for you swallow your pride. You declared the Camaro a failure well before its release and I still remember the time you said the car should weigh under 3600 lbs or else it's doomed. That does sound like a 14 year old's statement if ever there was one. How wrong were you? Very.

Talk about stubbornness, you have not changed your tune. You constantly praise the Mustang without even looking like buying one, presumably to send GM a hurtful message in the hope that sales dip.

That does not sound like an true enthusiast to me.

 

Let's give peace a chance

[ apologies to John Lennon ]

Too bad we can't buy each other a beer over the internet. I'd really enjoy a spirited discussion with Charlie over a cold one.

I really do appreciate both cars, whether we're talking about Mustang and Camaro, or Falcon and Commodore.

Apropos this thread, I think it's great that Ford finally has a first rate, no excuses V8 for the Mustang GT again. It's been a long time, and it makes the GM fan in me just a little uncomfortable, but the V8 fan in me is ecstatic. If it hadn't been for the Camaro announcement in 2006, I don't think today's Mustang would be as good as it is, just as today's Mustang will make tomorrow's Camaro better.

 

Thank you Charlie, but he doesn't bother me. I'm used to having some guys be threatened by the fact that I know more about cars/trucks, than they do. Most of them don't resort to childish name calling, but my shoulders are broad. LOL

First off, you are full of BS, and you know it. Prove to me, where I have continuously bashed GM products, while constantly praising everything that Ford has done, is doing, or will do. For the most part, all I do is impart a small amount of knowledge that I have, on a certain subject. Yes, many Ford products I am knowledgable about. I am also knowledgable on many GM products. However, so are many, many people here. Thus, I don't have to tell them what they already know. Yes, I may lament GM management on occassion, but so do many here.

Unlike you, most here like pretty much all Domestic vehicles.......... some just more than others. Most here are respectful and intelligent, and can carry on a thus conversation. This is why I am here........... because I enjoy most of the company.

BTW, I am proud of the fact that I am one of your most disliked posters. That is a point of honor, based on your posting prowess. Unlike you, I like and respect most here. You should try it. It is called growing up.

Finally, they have this neat function called ignore. By using it, you can ignore the posters that you cannot stand. I would be honored to be on your ignore list, as I am sure that Charlie would too. That way, you would not have to be visually assualted by the likes of someone who owns Fords, and Chevy's (My Yenko and Camaro). I know.......... the humanity.

I am done with you.

To the rest of the board, I apologize for this post. I felt it was necessary to do, but will not post to this individual again.

 

How much time do we have for me to bring up your biased overtones? I can't forget your attack on 5G Camaro for its weight numbers... yet you think the 4400 lb SHO is sporty. Now that is a classic, contrary statement from you. Then there was your hysteria about the rumored GM-Chrysler merger... that didn't pan out!

Btw, I'm afraid I owe you an apology. Sorry I called you a 'lady'.

 

In her defense, the Taurus is a four door sedan. Cars are heavier than they used to be. It's not a M3, M5, or even a G8 GXP, but it is sporty, as four door cars go (referring to the SHO). But no, it isn't a sports car. Or a pony car.

I was trying to make a point with you a couple of pages back that might help you understand Charlie's POV. The Camaro's weight makes increasing performance above what it currently is more difficult than it would be if it were lighter. Yes, they can increase the engine's output. But to what end? Mustang will still be lighter and probably still be the favorite in review magazines/websites. Weight is the enemy of EVERYTHING and that is why Z284ever, and many others, prefer that the Camaro had been lighter. Weight is the elephant in the room. That's why it keeps being brought up.

Maybe it's like a few in the Camaro crowd are just too used to winning the drag strip bragging rights, and we can't deal with having a Mustang being so close (or ahead...time will tell). But I can tell you this for sure; arguing and talking sh_t on an internet forum isn't going to change anything. If we can't have fun with it, and we can't be adults about it, we might as well leave.

 

But we get a little OCD about it.

In 1985, the Camaro was a couple of hundred pounds heavier than the Mustang, yet Charlie is a big 3rd gen fan, not a mid-80s Fox body fan.

So why is the same percentage difference such a big deal now?

BTW, the "elephant in the room" is typically used to describe something obvious that people are avoiding talking about. Weight comes up in every thread, so I don't think the phrase applies here.

 

Z284ever is old enough to know how to write his thoughts down for all to interpret. I don't give him any benefit of the doubt. He knows what his agenda is and he makes the same point every time. I don't think its about Camaro vs Mustang in any of his points. It's more about him, his opinions and how his opinions are more meaningful than any conflicting opinion. Him, he, his, himself... everything else is relatively unimportant. Even the engineers at GM are fools for designing such a poor package... according to him.

What I'm at least attempting to do is use a technical viewpoint to estimate what the Coyote Mustang's performance will be like. I used the 5.4L V8 as a yardstick for overall performance. If that's not a good enough estimate, why not just use these formulas to get an estimate:

Therefore,

Coyote Mustang:

MPH = 231.3027 (412/3750)^1/3
MPH = 111 mph

ET = 6.1178 (3750/412)^1/3
ET = 12.77 s

with the car weighing 3600 lbs and the driver weighing just 150 lbs.

LS3 Camaro:

MPH = 231.3027 (426/4000)^1/3
MPH = 110 mph

ET = 6.1178 (4000/426)^1/3
ET = 12.90 s

I guess we can expect the Mustang to be at least as quick as Camaro from these calculations.