This is why i hate gm HIGH TECH MAG
10-09-2003, 09:45 AM
#31
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Originally posted by doug791
i like that answer....wasnt sure about the 7k comment but the link to the aritcle wasnt working and i couldnt easily find it so i just commented and waited. From the sounds of it you guys didnt do too badly although with the obvious restriction being the tpi system i dont see why youd bother modding that. For the same money you spent as pointed out a couple times you probably could have gotten a stealth ram, cam, and exhaust. I think people just get all wrapped up in their ego's and when they go hey i could have done that a bit better they jump all over you. I think the important thing for people to remember is to take everything with a grain of salt because maybe it could have been done differently, but based on what they did you do get a good reflection of what those products they put on will achieve. Even if youre not happy with the results then you know to stay away from doing it the way they did. Its all good information so remember to take it for what its worth and when it comes right down to building our own cars were all going to do something a little different so it doesnt really matter anyways.
i like that answer....wasnt sure about the 7k comment but the link to the aritcle wasnt working and i couldnt easily find it so i just commented and waited. From the sounds of it you guys didnt do too badly although with the obvious restriction being the tpi system i dont see why youd bother modding that. For the same money you spent as pointed out a couple times you probably could have gotten a stealth ram, cam, and exhaust. I think people just get all wrapped up in their ego's and when they go hey i could have done that a bit better they jump all over you. I think the important thing for people to remember is to take everything with a grain of salt because maybe it could have been done differently, but based on what they did you do get a good reflection of what those products they put on will achieve. Even if youre not happy with the results then you know to stay away from doing it the way they did. Its all good information so remember to take it for what its worth and when it comes right down to building our own cars were all going to do something a little different so it doesnt really matter anyways.
Hi sorry here is the link to the article ..
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...311htp_frugal/
10-09-2003, 10:42 AM
#32
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Location: Markham, ON
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wow i thought that was a different article (i read a slightly similar one before) but looking through that now i dont see why people have a problem with that....The only questionable part was the runners but as far as basic bolt ons thats what you would tell anyone to do.....pulleys, cold air, filter, exhaust....then its mainly suspension, tires and cost of the car....what in there do you have a problem with exactly? And the fact that some of that stuff cost as much as it did oh well thats how much things cost....building cars is not cheap thats why you have to pay 100 grand to get a car the runs low 12's from the factory.
10-12-2003, 02:38 PM
#33
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Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 780
Originally posted by Blownyellow
Kevin,
I can not remember seeing a post of yours that I disagread with but come on!!! Kissing *** may help you get in good standing with the magazine but at this rate nobody on a third gen message board will care in a couple months.
To say that we should be happy with seeing one of our cars in GMHTP is rediculous. Our cars as the third generation took the same amount of GM production time as the LT1 and LS1 combined, not to even compare the build numbers!!!
Kevin,
I can not remember seeing a post of yours that I disagread with but come on!!! Kissing *** may help you get in good standing with the magazine but at this rate nobody on a third gen message board will care in a couple months.
To say that we should be happy with seeing one of our cars in GMHTP is rediculous. Our cars as the third generation took the same amount of GM production time as the LT1 and LS1 combined, not to even compare the build numbers!!!
Steve, again I say you do not have to worry about your 9-bolt 3.45 rear end at this power level. Slap on those drag radials and go have fun. Its the T5 you have to worry about. Mine didnt break until I used ET Streets and got my 60 foot times in the 1.8x range.
10-12-2003, 05:03 PM
#34
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: ny
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shhhhhhhhit dude for 7 grand you could build a 10 second beast. cam, heads,manifold, headers, exhaust total rebuild on your 305 and then throw a turbo on theier will a shot of nos you have a 10 second car but it wont last past 5,000 miles i actually started following him i bought the pulleys and exhaust and didnt really get far im a second and 3 10ths behind him do headers make that much power or could he be bluffing
10-12-2003, 07:18 PM
#35
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Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Albion, Nebraska, USA
Posts: 274
"shhhhhhhhit dude for 7 grand you could build a 10 second beast. cam, heads,manifold, headers, exhaust total rebuild on your 305 and then throw a turbo on theier will a shot of nos you have a 10 second car but it wont last past 5,000 miles"
Wow Lordmetal, that would be a real good magazine story. I think this TurboSteve should just give over the reigns of the magazine to you. What was he thinking???
Martin
Wow Lordmetal, that would be a real good magazine story. I think this TurboSteve should just give over the reigns of the magazine to you. What was he thinking???
Martin
10-30-2003, 02:17 AM
#38
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 4,784
How about this:
3 Gs for the car
plus
3,909.95 for a GMPP 383 Crate
plus
~$400 for a decent th350 tranny
plus
~$700 for a CC306, some 1.6 rockers and springs or a LT4 hot cam kit, gaskets and machine work
plus
$500 for a 150 shot N20 system
plus
$900 for some halfway decent rims and tires
plus
$500 for an exhaust system, uncoated headers/y pipe and catback
10 Gs and easy 11's with some traction and a prayer or two.
3 Gs for the car
plus
3,909.95 for a GMPP 383 Crate
plus
~$400 for a decent th350 tranny
plus
~$700 for a CC306, some 1.6 rockers and springs or a LT4 hot cam kit, gaskets and machine work
plus
$500 for a 150 shot N20 system
plus
$900 for some halfway decent rims and tires
plus
$500 for an exhaust system, uncoated headers/y pipe and catback
10 Gs and easy 11's with some traction and a prayer or two.
10-30-2003, 08:50 PM
#39
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Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: MI
Posts: 2,342
I'd like to see them be "fun" for once with a Thirdgen project...
For that amount of money (7-10K), they could have bought a used 305, swap a car/intake, headers on it and spend a grand for a good nitrous kit and go mid 12's in a safe manner roughly and then crank it up and see what it'll do while under a little heat
Maybe 11's? 
But no...Spend insane cash on a 305 or 396 buildup and be dissapointed with the results.
Can someone PM me if they evere got that 396 running good with the SuperRam, etc,etc...I know the Yellow Thunderchicken ran 11.90's with it's 396 and 6 speed but last I seen the 396 Thirdgen was in the 12's and I mean BARELY...For a while also it was pulling mid 13's(trans problems rings a bell however)..
For that amount of money (7-10K), they could have bought a used 305, swap a car/intake, headers on it and spend a grand for a good nitrous kit and go mid 12's in a safe manner roughly and then crank it up and see what it'll do while under a little heat
Maybe 11's? But no...Spend insane cash on a 305 or 396 buildup and be dissapointed with the results.Can someone PM me if they evere got that 396 running good with the SuperRam, etc,etc...I know the Yellow Thunderchicken ran 11.90's with it's 396 and 6 speed but last I seen the 396 Thirdgen was in the 12's and I mean BARELY...For a while also it was pulling mid 13's(trans problems rings a bell however)..
10-31-2003, 01:29 PM
#40
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Yes I do agree .. i am not sure what they are doing over there when you compare them with the rest of the hot rod type of magazines or the real world . What i mean is that they have spend tons of time and money on these project cars and always seem to come up short in overall performance..
I guess what I am trying to say is that these guys don’t offer value per dollar vs. performance most hard working guys are looking for. After reading their articles I always say to myself “ they spent how much for those results!!!” Just wish they would open their eye’s and put together something without the sponsor add popping junk they always seem to do.. Don’t get me wrong I understand that they need to make money from this sponsors but enough is enough with all of the junk you are trying to push that does not make the hp these manufactures claim.
I guess what I am trying to say is that these guys don’t offer value per dollar vs. performance most hard working guys are looking for. After reading their articles I always say to myself “ they spent how much for those results!!!” Just wish they would open their eye’s and put together something without the sponsor add popping junk they always seem to do.. Don’t get me wrong I understand that they need to make money from this sponsors but enough is enough with all of the junk you are trying to push that does not make the hp these manufactures claim.
10-31-2003, 03:06 PM
#41
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Location: Markham, ON
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*smashes head on desk* okay remember theyve only used like half of their budget and that half includes the price of the car....i have a funny feeling none of you even took the time to read the article...they did pulleys, exhaust, and a CAI, the rest of the money was all in suspension mods, and new wheels and tires. What of those things would you object to? Id say those are the first mods any person should be doing. The only really questionable thing they did was the intake runners. So all of you get off your high horse and figure out wtf youre talking about before you post. Everyone is talking a lot but youre not saying anything. If you object to the mods they did say which ones and why. Saying "i could have done better" means horse **** what could you have done better? And dont say an engine swap because for many of us that is a larger undertaking then we could deal with. The point of this article was to make the car/engine they do have better.
10-31-2003, 03:40 PM
#42
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Originally posted by doug791
*smashes head on desk* okay remember theyve only used like half of their budget and that half includes the price of the car....i have a funny feeling none of you even took the time to read the article...they did pulleys, exhaust, and a CAI, the rest of the money was all in suspension mods, and new wheels and tires. What of those things would you object to? Id say those are the first mods any person should be doing. The only really questionable thing they did was the intake runners. So all of you get off your high horse and figure out wtf youre talking about before you post. Everyone is talking a lot but youre not saying anything. If you object to the mods they did say which ones and why. Saying "i could have done better" means horse **** what could you have done better? And dont say an engine swap because for many of us that is a larger undertaking then we could deal with. The point of this article was to make the car/engine they do have better.
*smashes head on desk* okay remember theyve only used like half of their budget and that half includes the price of the car....i have a funny feeling none of you even took the time to read the article...they did pulleys, exhaust, and a CAI, the rest of the money was all in suspension mods, and new wheels and tires. What of those things would you object to? Id say those are the first mods any person should be doing. The only really questionable thing they did was the intake runners. So all of you get off your high horse and figure out wtf youre talking about before you post. Everyone is talking a lot but youre not saying anything. If you object to the mods they did say which ones and why. Saying "i could have done better" means horse **** what could you have done better? And dont say an engine swap because for many of us that is a larger undertaking then we could deal with. The point of this article was to make the car/engine they do have better.
Hey Jerky boy yes I did read the article my problem is that they wasted almost 700 bucks for stupid stuff
399.95 SLP runners runner (they are not worth the price tag)
129.99 For jet pulleys (worthless all this does is make the car heat up and not charge properly, Try using the a/c head lights and run a stereo system you will be singing a different tune when the battery is dead)
89.99 Adjustable fuel regulator (you don’t need to bump up fuel if you have a good tune (that’s a Band-Aid approach for tuning.
But they have no problem spending 1799.99 for the firehawk wheels and tires (to tell you the truth there are allot more tire and rim selection out these days which would make the car look better and be cheaper at the same time but, we all know they got those rims and tires for free or allot less then what they say to plug the SLP Name). (Look at tire rack .com and you will see for yourself )
They should have bought just tires … to save on the budget so that a large chunk on the money can go into the mechanical stuff as need for this high mileage car. I would have not said anything about the rims and tires if the car was in better mechanical shape but to waste money those expensive rims is a waste to me when that money can be put to better use.
A simple cam swap would have netted about 30 hp without breaking a sweat for about a fraction of the 700 price tag a describe from above
Maybe you should take a closer look at the article before you run your mouth.
Yes I do agree with you about spending the money first on the suspension first (that’s a no brainier) but you are still missing my point how they miss lead people just to plug manufacture names.
Oh and that whole thing about grinding the intake plenum is worthless on a stock 305 using a stock intake manifold. I bet most of the horsepower they gained was from freeing up the exhaust system (headers and cat back system) and the cold air kit…
10-31-2003, 05:00 PM
#43
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9
Originally posted by Maldo
Hey Jerky boy yes I did read the article my problem is that they wasted almost 700 bucks for stupid stuff
399.95 SLP runners runner (they are not worth the price tag)
129.99 For jet pulleys (worthless all this does is make the car heat up and not charge properly, Try using the a/c head lights and run a stereo system you will be singing a different tune when the battery is dead)
89.99 Adjustable fuel regulator (you don’t need to bump up fuel if you have a good tune (that’s a Band-Aid approach for tuning.
But they have no problem spending 1799.99 for the firehawk wheels and tires (to tell you the truth there are allot more tire and rim selection out these days which would make the car look better and be cheaper at the same time but, we all know they got those rims and tires for free or allot less then what they say to plug the SLP Name). (Look at tire rack .com and you will see for yourself )
They should have bought just tires … to save on the budget so that a large chunk on the money can go into the mechanical stuff as need for this high mileage car. I would have not said anything about the rims and tires if the car was in better mechanical shape but to waste money those expensive rims is a waste to me when that money can be put to better use.
A simple cam swap would have netted about 30 hp without breaking a sweat for about a fraction of the 700 price tag a describe from above
Maybe you should take a closer look at the article before you run your mouth.
Yes I do agree with you about spending the money first on the suspension first (that’s a no brainier) but you are still missing my point how they miss lead people just to plug manufacture names.
Oh and that whole thing about grinding the intake plenum is worthless on a stock 305 using a stock intake manifold. I bet most of the horsepower they gained was from freeing up the exhaust system (headers and cat back system) and the cold air kit…
Hey Jerky boy yes I did read the article my problem is that they wasted almost 700 bucks for stupid stuff
399.95 SLP runners runner (they are not worth the price tag)
129.99 For jet pulleys (worthless all this does is make the car heat up and not charge properly, Try using the a/c head lights and run a stereo system you will be singing a different tune when the battery is dead)
89.99 Adjustable fuel regulator (you don’t need to bump up fuel if you have a good tune (that’s a Band-Aid approach for tuning.
But they have no problem spending 1799.99 for the firehawk wheels and tires (to tell you the truth there are allot more tire and rim selection out these days which would make the car look better and be cheaper at the same time but, we all know they got those rims and tires for free or allot less then what they say to plug the SLP Name). (Look at tire rack .com and you will see for yourself )
They should have bought just tires … to save on the budget so that a large chunk on the money can go into the mechanical stuff as need for this high mileage car. I would have not said anything about the rims and tires if the car was in better mechanical shape but to waste money those expensive rims is a waste to me when that money can be put to better use.
A simple cam swap would have netted about 30 hp without breaking a sweat for about a fraction of the 700 price tag a describe from above
Maybe you should take a closer look at the article before you run your mouth.
Yes I do agree with you about spending the money first on the suspension first (that’s a no brainier) but you are still missing my point how they miss lead people just to plug manufacture names.
Oh and that whole thing about grinding the intake plenum is worthless on a stock 305 using a stock intake manifold. I bet most of the horsepower they gained was from freeing up the exhaust system (headers and cat back system) and the cold air kit…
However, I'm betting based on your statements regarding the 30hp cam swap, comments on grinding on the plenum, the AFPR, and how much gain you think there is in the exhaust system for a stock 305 TPI,,, that you've never actually modified or tuned on one - a 305TPI that is,,,, or 350 TPI car. If I'm wrong,, please share with everyone the cam that you believe will make 30 rwhp in a 305 TPI without grinding on the plenum or adding an AFPR.
I do take issue with you saying GMHTP is misleading the readers. This article that you seem to have trouble with should prove they're not misleading anyone. So what if they are "plugging" the part as you say. They're installing the part, dynoing it, and reporting the results. How in hell is that misleading? Now,,,, if they claimed to have made 30 rwhp from a cam swap and didn't report the actually before and after dyno results,,, or even worse,,,, never even swapped the cam,,,, NOW THAT WOULD BE MISLEADING,,, huh?
10-31-2003, 07:18 PM
#44
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Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: GREENSBORO, N.C.
Posts: 13
I've kinda been checkin' in on this thread for a while. I'm a regular thirdgen.org guy, but this is interesting, so I'm gonna jump in. ...and I have read the article.
First off, I love GMHTP.
Secondly, I think that both sides of this are correct, and not listening to the other.
To the TPI faithful (like myself) who are complaining about this article in GMHTP: As someone already stated, alot of the money has not been spent, and for that matter, most has not even been spent on the engine. I'm hoping that there are good things to come.
To GMHTP: I think the main problem is not a piece by piece argument over using this or that, but more of the overall picture being drawn. I can say that as a TPI guy who is still learning, I cringe when I read this article. The best example of this is the runners. Now lets forget the price. Let's say that they were $125, NO, they were FREE. YOU said they were worth up to 20 HP. Again, let's not fuss over numbers, we'll all assume that you gained 20 HP on the dyno. ( I thinkyou actually did if I remember correctly). You can ask ANYONE making any kind of power with a TPI that runners are a bad initail investment. Here's where this debate is getting stuck. GMHTP is defending that the the goal was to see what bolt on HP was available. That's a noble effort, and I applaud that effort, and I think you succeded. Problem is that it should NOT be one of the first upgrades when looking for HP on a 305. The facts/numbers don't tell the whole story. All of us who know TPI's know exactly how your/our mill responds to the parts you put on. I actually am interested to see some of them, but I'll tell ya this. Any kid who's looking to run with all the imports, who drops the money for runners and goes looking to race, AIN'T COMIN' BACK TO SLP!!! And to TPI's for that matter. That's the injustice, that's the issue, and that's what your story leads to. Heck, WE all know what's gonna happen, but it's the newbies that need our guidance. Telling them that runners add 20 HP is the truth, but it's not the best advice. It's like a lie of omission, only more like misleading by omission of a better way to start.
Did that make sence?
I'd be happy with a paragraph ending in:
"We were happy with our SLP runners, but remember that the engine is more than the sum of all of its parts, and many parts including the SLP runners really start to come into there own when working with other high flow components such as an aftermarket camshaft or even aftermarket heads. However, 20 RWHP is nothing to scoff at for starters, and with some future modifications, 13's shouldn't be too far off. "
I think the article did mention the future value of the hi-flow runners early on, but a newbie is only coming out of that article with ONE THING....20RWHP. He needs to be thinking, "first step", not "SPEED RACER".
First off, I love GMHTP.
Secondly, I think that both sides of this are correct, and not listening to the other.
To the TPI faithful (like myself) who are complaining about this article in GMHTP: As someone already stated, alot of the money has not been spent, and for that matter, most has not even been spent on the engine. I'm hoping that there are good things to come.
To GMHTP: I think the main problem is not a piece by piece argument over using this or that, but more of the overall picture being drawn. I can say that as a TPI guy who is still learning, I cringe when I read this article. The best example of this is the runners. Now lets forget the price. Let's say that they were $125, NO, they were FREE. YOU said they were worth up to 20 HP. Again, let's not fuss over numbers, we'll all assume that you gained 20 HP on the dyno. ( I thinkyou actually did if I remember correctly). You can ask ANYONE making any kind of power with a TPI that runners are a bad initail investment. Here's where this debate is getting stuck. GMHTP is defending that the the goal was to see what bolt on HP was available. That's a noble effort, and I applaud that effort, and I think you succeded. Problem is that it should NOT be one of the first upgrades when looking for HP on a 305. The facts/numbers don't tell the whole story. All of us who know TPI's know exactly how your/our mill responds to the parts you put on. I actually am interested to see some of them, but I'll tell ya this. Any kid who's looking to run with all the imports, who drops the money for runners and goes looking to race, AIN'T COMIN' BACK TO SLP!!! And to TPI's for that matter. That's the injustice, that's the issue, and that's what your story leads to. Heck, WE all know what's gonna happen, but it's the newbies that need our guidance. Telling them that runners add 20 HP is the truth, but it's not the best advice. It's like a lie of omission, only more like misleading by omission of a better way to start.
Did that make sence?
I'd be happy with a paragraph ending in:
"We were happy with our SLP runners, but remember that the engine is more than the sum of all of its parts, and many parts including the SLP runners really start to come into there own when working with other high flow components such as an aftermarket camshaft or even aftermarket heads. However, 20 RWHP is nothing to scoff at for starters, and with some future modifications, 13's shouldn't be too far off. "
I think the article did mention the future value of the hi-flow runners early on, but a newbie is only coming out of that article with ONE THING....20RWHP. He needs to be thinking, "first step", not "SPEED RACER".