90rocz

TurboSteve,
As much as I usually enjoy your mag too, I hold mags like yours partially responsible for the disapearing TPI market. Lets face it nobody wants to spend 10 Grand and get beat by a Regal GS.
My cousin owned an '86 IROC TPI back in 1987 and it ran very-low 15's and an ocassional high 14 with FREE mods, NO bolt-ons..
If you want to test products and publish info, I'M ALL FOR IT! But you do send a message sometimes that "not even 10 grand can get a 5.0L TPI lower than the 14's...
Your mag should teach the "mechanically challenged" how to..mod a MAF sensor, port a plenum behind the blades, size injectors, tune an EFI car to its best, then get the bolt ons going. There is ALWAYS room for improvement, and MANY great products out there to help! We'll still need them! Just, to get into, say the low 13's or high 12's though...
Keep up the good work, Love the TR coverage and maybe you could pump up a couple more L98's and help us out a little.

Kevin91Z

Steve, dont let these detractors get you down. There's always a few bad apples in the crowd.
You guys really need to lighten up. GMHTP is doing a feature on OUR thirdgen f-bodies. So what if its not exactly like your car. Chevy High Performance did one last year on an 87 305 carb'd car. I didnt whine or complain that they were using an old and outdated carb setup instead of a "modern" fuel injected 350 engine. I was happy they chose a thirdgen to do their next story on. The same with this story in GMHTP. They had the mega-buck (which wasnt supposed to be) article Johnny H's 350 TPI Formula, and now a piece on a 305 5-speed car. Sure, low 14's arent the greatest ET's anymore, but look at what they've accomplished so far. Almost 3/4 of a second is great. I even sent Steve a few suggestions on what he can try next to get his car into the 13's.
Lighten up guys, and enjoy the good press our thirdgens are getting from GMHTP. Would you rather they ignore us altogether and concentrate on nothing but 11 second LS1's?

90rocz

Come on Kevin, we just want a more realistic fair representaion, that's all. If these articles are aimed at 3rd Gen owners, then do what they, or we would do, plain and simple....you'll still sell parts and maybe a lot more mags....

Error404

TurboSteve :

86 camaro Iroc

350 TPI (not factory engine)

auto tranny

got another 10k? want a 350 TPI camaro for your next project? would be willing to lend mine

Blownyellow

Kevin,

I can not remember seeing a post of yours that I disagread with but come on!!! Kissing *** may help you get in good standing with the magazine but at this rate nobody on a third gen message board will care in a couple months.

To say that we should be happy with seeing one of our cars in GMHTP is rediculous. Our cars as the third generation took the same amount of GM production time as the LT1 and LS1 combined, not to even compare the build numbers!!!

The simple fact of the matter is that GMHTP showed us EXACTLY what not to do two times in a row with a third gen f-body. First they blew their unbelievably unlimited and ludicraus budget on Magnum TPI, only to rip off the same times a heads and cam lt1 and even worse, a simply cammed LS1 would run. We are talking an accel DFI Gen 7 powered 396 with fully CNC'D AFR heads that had to absolutely beg to get in to eleven seconds' door.

Your artical may have had some merit 10 years ago when your only option was to spend 4000 bucks to pick up under a second in the quarter, but if you want to keep us as readers and as customers, you had better get in touch with the real world and start building some serious performing budget cars. Even CHP is starting to cover your aces on third gen performance.

Please turn it around!!!!!!!

95 Silver TA

One thing about doing a supposed Budget build up
is that you want to spend the least amount of
money to FASTer and still maintain reliability.
That is something I feel the magazine did not accomplish (305
or no 305). Dont get me wrong, I like the Mag but did not
care for this article or articles like this. When most folks
look at my car or site (see sig), they think I have a lot
of money in the car, and they are right (to a point).
Eventhough I may have more money than the average
bolt on Lt1, I still saved a lot of money on my budget build up.
I did that by researching parts, asking questions and most
importantly, searching the forsale section of Forums like this one.
My motor, eventhough it was New, cost me just a little over 2 grand but would cost most folks closer to 5Gs when going to places like Nuteck Motors (I got the motor on the forsale section of this Forum). My supercharger and intercooler ran upto a
2500.00 price tag but new would be closer to 3500.00 thats because I was able to purchase the Supercharger new and purchase the intercooler used (I got the intercooler on the foresale section). My Long Tube headers, custom Y-pipe with dual random cats cost me 400 bucks used but new it would have cost ~$1200.00 (I got it on the forsale section of Z28.com...Are you noticing a pattern yet?) My Scanmaster was another item I was able to get used from the forsale section just to name a Few. I also got my car Street Tuned by Bryan at PCMforles for
only 150.00. My friend Maldo (who started this post) helped me with the install of the 383 and most of the stuff we did ourselves to save more money. I also made ~$650.00 from all the parts I sold from the old motor to reduce my cost. What I am trying to say is that if you are gonna do a budget buildup....Then Do a Budget Build up! There are plenty of folks on the board to get parts from cheap and still make Good Power and do it reliably. Going this route would have been more cost effective and probably would have made more power, not to mention you would have had your readers more interested (IMHO) and would also not look like you are sucking up to your advertisers.


By the way, eventhough my car is not a 3rd Gen 305, I drive my car in NJ too. I average 600 Miles WEEKLY, I will drive my car Rain or Shine or if there is less than 2 inches of snow on the ground. I do enjoy your magazine but articles like this one does loose my interest with a quickness!

Thx,
Claude

doug791

i think the basic fact that they dropped 7 grand into a motor and only ran 14's is horribly depressing.....especially considering you could buy a 400 hp motor with that kind of money....

kevin 2.8

i repeat theres still 3 grand left in budget, if he does it right he can pull through with that case of beer. and make the car fast too.

doug791

3 grand went to the purchasing of the car but i bet we could find somewhere in the 7 GRAND they dropped into the motor for a case of beer or two....

TurboSteve

Getting a little hot in here as i expected. I forgot to mention that the $167 exhaust from Dynomax was the real deal. No special prices, just a mild steel performance exhaust that produced good results.

If i dropped 7K into a motor and only ran 14's, i'd be horribly depressed too. So far we've only spent $1,543.39 (Check the budget) on the engine and have knocked 7 tenths off our elapsed times. Nitrous oxide would have cost just a third of that and shaved off a second of e.t., but i don't think the engine would have survived a season of merciless beatings at the track and more dyno runs than i care to recall.

Chances are we could have put together a cheap 350, reconditioned the stock heads and stuffed a cam in it for the money we have already spent, but we really wanted to see exactly what was possible with a naturally aspirated 305 and many readers agreed and applauded the fact that we didn't just run for the cubic inches. That's not to say it's not a good idea, just one we didn't want to pursue at the time.

There's certainly a good argument for buying used parts and doing a story on that. It sounds actually like a good way to write a car feature, or a shootout like the Grassroots $2K deal. The only problem i see is that everyone may not be able to negotiate the same deals. Someone will eventually get on the internet and call foul saying there's no way someone could score G.I. Joe with the kung fu grip for that kind of coin.

I think we mentioned the fact that we had 13-second power (MPH), but weren't willing to sacrifice the rear axle in order to get the 1.8-1.9-second 60-foot time needed to obtain it. I promise the car will run better than 14.22 without any investment in the engine or rear. Plus the project isn't over yet. I still have a couple of grand to mess with. I think only a third of the total budget is actualy going towards the motor. We had no intention of spending all 10K on an engine just to make an old high-mileage third gen run fast. I've got a thing for corners too. Big FIA WRC and Formula One fan. Once i have an engine that i don't have to worry about grenading on the backstretch at the Glen, maybe we'll get some road course coverage. That's one place where F-bodies have always excelled over Mustangs.

On another note, i don't think GMHTP in particular could be blamed for the downfall of the TPI aftermarket. The TPI was long gone and replaced by a much more powerful engine by the time the magazine actually came to print. The Mustang aftermarket explosion had more to do with the average Joe going fast and not the magazines. Blame GM for pricing their cars a few thousand more than an LX Mustang too.

When we started this project, we did solicit advice/ideas from thirdgen.org and such places and have done about half of what they asked. A few stories we just couldn't do, had covered in previous issues or had a freelancer do on their own car, but we still plan to check a few more off the list. If we were monthly this would be more evident, but having to wait every other month to do or see something takes twice as long.

TurboSteve

doug791

i like that answer....wasnt sure about the 7k comment but the link to the aritcle wasnt working and i couldnt easily find it so i just commented and waited. From the sounds of it you guys didnt do too badly although with the obvious restriction being the tpi system i dont see why youd bother modding that. For the same money you spent as pointed out a couple times you probably could have gotten a stealth ram, cam, and exhaust. I think people just get all wrapped up in their ego's and when they go hey i could have done that a bit better they jump all over you. I think the important thing for people to remember is to take everything with a grain of salt because maybe it could have been done differently, but based on what they did you do get a good reflection of what those products they put on will achieve. Even if youre not happy with the results then you know to stay away from doing it the way they did. Its all good information so remember to take it for what its worth and when it comes right down to building our own cars were all going to do something a little different so it doesnt really matter anyways.

90rocz

I like the "Touring Car" approach, it's generally where I'm eventially headed.
"a much more powerful engine",now... Steve
(lets not go there again.....)
Give that 'lil 305 HE!!....
BTW My 90 Iroc has over 180K and other than replacing the valve seals, runs great w/no noises. I'm starting to think it's indestructible...
BTW, I'm not singling out GMHTP, it just seems like that the TPI's NEVER got the MAG coverage afforded the LT1's and LS1's. By the time good EFI Mags came out they skipped us.....And when I see coverage of one spending Thousands of dollars on one and still lagging behind a stock LT1, I get a little aggitated.....
Do you spend a lot of time or money on V6 or other low powered 4th Gens??
The first mod I would've done is a GM crate motor, basic and stripped down cheap.(under 2K)
But for a Laid off, father of 3, I must pursue the Most-Bang-For-very-few-Bucks path.
My current set up goes like this:
Homade Ram Air from the bottoms of the cut-out air boxes to the fog light location(8"furnace duct elbows). K&N filters, relocated IAT in the filter box lid, TPIS T/B Air Foil, ported plenum inlet, T/B coolant bypassed(summer,blades stick in winter),stock runners, stock bottom end ,ported#083 heads, ported base intake(gasket matched), new distributor w/Accel Cap, rotor and Module, Adjustable Fuel Pressure REG,255lhp fuel pump, Flowtech "Shorty"headers, Custom true-dual exhaust(side-by-side pipes following factory path split after the axle.), SLP2500 stall converter, B&M shift kit, 3.73 gears, Zexel Torsen posi, KYB-GR2 Shocks and struts,Lakewood LCA's and Panhard rod, Urethane bushings, Goodyear GSC tires.

95 Silver TA

If you guys are serious, please let me know...
I have the names of most people that I bought the parts from (Prominent Board Members, Kevin Green aka 2MCHPSI)
and some reciepts too. And The intercooer, Long Tubes and other things including the members name that I bought it from so I know they can vouch for it.
I also have a Ton of Digitial pictures (that are not on my webpage) from the actual rebuild and how we (mostly Maldo) pulled the motor from the bottom.
The only problem is that I dont have any track or Dyno times yet but that could be fixed Like I said before, I like the magazine but some articles like the one mentioned above, I could care less for...just being honest.

Thx,
Claude

XH2Oskier

I don't think he's questioning the deals you got Claude, he's merely pointing out the fact that not everyone will be able to score the same deal on the same part if they're buying through private parties.....unless those guys you mentioned all have dozens of the same parts sitting around that they're willing to sell for the same deal you got.

Imagine if a guy like Nine Ball wrote a story called, "Buy an LS1 for less than $100!" and then went on to write about the killer deal he got on a car, which he parted out until the engine had all but paid for itself. I've already offered to pay him twice what he paid for his LS1 if he could get one for me

OneFlyn95z28

Well I must admit there is one thing that REALY sticks out from this post

3rd gen guys whine as much as 4th gen LT1 owners do

I have owned all gens and I miss my 88 IROC 5.0. Then again you do not see me whining about how bad the LS1 kicks my *** either.

Step up and play...I did!