LT1 4th Gen VS L98 3rd Gen
09-30-2003, 07:21 PM
#61
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Location: Norfolk, VA. USA
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Around my area, most cars are modded and fast, LS1's putting down 400+, LT1's putting down up to 450, L98's doing about the same as well as normal 350's and 4.6 and 5.0 Mustangs.
These are all heads and cam setups and very streetable.
Being a Military Area, you have people from all over the country converging here.
Here is link to our local Top Dog list,
http://h10013.racknine.com/~tidewate...threadid=11034
That isn't everyone, but it's most of the people I know.
These are all heads and cam setups and very streetable.
Being a Military Area, you have people from all over the country converging here.
Here is link to our local Top Dog list,
http://h10013.racknine.com/~tidewate...threadid=11034
That isn't everyone, but it's most of the people I know.
09-30-2003, 07:48 PM
#62
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Location: Athens/Alpharetta GA
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Thanks for the links, i'm checking them out now...some real nice cars here.
That 98 LS1 i give credit for, they actually got into the motor and did some real work. Plus the 4.10s are very respectable.
Now, i must clarify that i KNOW the TPI intake setup will not support higher horses and rpms, but why limit it to only the stock intake? Yes, the outdated technology of the TPI system is just that...outdated.
But rip off the top end and you're left with a good roller system, a somewhat decent cam and generally good-flowing heads.
Now, take the roller block, add a big cam, high-flo heads, say steath ram intake, and vioala, instant streetable high-horse car.
Why does everyone seem to think that you have to massively modify an L98 to turn bigger horses. Are heads, cam and intake THAT big a deal? I would surely hope not...
So, now earlier we were talking bang for the buck.
Well, an LS1 crate motor reatails for about $6500.
An L98 can be acquired and rebuilt with cast alum internals for about $2500, new intake $500, REALLY good heads and cam $2000. Total: $5000. Of which you'll be getting some real good "bang" out of the smallblock. Take the other $1500 left over pack that baby full of boost...again, this would be an interesting match for the LS1, at equivalent cost.
That 98 LS1 i give credit for, they actually got into the motor and did some real work. Plus the 4.10s are very respectable.
Now, i must clarify that i KNOW the TPI intake setup will not support higher horses and rpms, but why limit it to only the stock intake? Yes, the outdated technology of the TPI system is just that...outdated.
But rip off the top end and you're left with a good roller system, a somewhat decent cam and generally good-flowing heads.
Now, take the roller block, add a big cam, high-flo heads, say steath ram intake, and vioala, instant streetable high-horse car.
Why does everyone seem to think that you have to massively modify an L98 to turn bigger horses. Are heads, cam and intake THAT big a deal? I would surely hope not...
So, now earlier we were talking bang for the buck.
Well, an LS1 crate motor reatails for about $6500.
An L98 can be acquired and rebuilt with cast alum internals for about $2500, new intake $500, REALLY good heads and cam $2000. Total: $5000. Of which you'll be getting some real good "bang" out of the smallblock. Take the other $1500 left over pack that baby full of boost...again, this would be an interesting match for the LS1, at equivalent cost.
09-30-2003, 07:53 PM
#63
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all this talk maked me wanna replace my tpi with lsi and i might just do it. then ill run with mad ls1,s
09-30-2003, 08:12 PM
#64
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I know people including myslef that would rather have an L98 over an LT1. I like the lower-mid RPM power they make which is just great for the street. L98s can definetly take some LT1s in 0-60/70MPH races and even take LS1s for a little while too until they start pulling. That's saying alot for the 1st real good GM performance EFI system and something that goes back to 85/87. I also like that it doesn't have some of the "tech advancements" that the LT1 has and I also like their sound better. That engine just makes incredible big block like TQ when modded and it's responsive and streetable.
Last edited by IZ28; 10-01-2003 at 11:47 AM.
09-30-2003, 08:33 PM
#65
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Originally posted by lordmetalz28
all this talk maked me wanna replace my tpi with lsi and i might just do it. then ill run with mad ls1,s
all this talk maked me wanna replace my tpi with lsi and i might just do it. then ill run with mad ls1,s
Just build the L98!!!
Seriously, throw on a new intake and go with it! that's what i'm doing, and with the new gear setup you WILL see an L98 that'll hang with the over-glorified LS1 "supermotor," (well, at least the autos and the punks who can't drive manuals! Haha)
I think another problem i have about the LS1 is that people who own them so often have never touched anything beneath an air filer. AHHH!!! It's a pretty good motor, why such a stupid desire to keep them stock???
Last edited by kraftopia02; 09-30-2003 at 08:36 PM.
09-30-2003, 09:20 PM
#66
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Location: Diamondhead, MS
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Originally posted by IZ28
I know people including myslef that would rather have an L98 over an LT1. I like the lower-mid RPM power they make which is just great for the street. L98s can definetly take some LT1s in 0-60/70MPH races and even take LS1s for a little while too until they start pulling. That's saying alot for the 1st real good GM performance EFI system and something that goes back to 85/87. I also like that it doesn't have some of the "tech advancements" that the LT1 has and I also like their sound better. That engine just makes incredible big block like TQ when modded excpet it's responsive and streetable.
I know people including myslef that would rather have an L98 over an LT1. I like the lower-mid RPM power they make which is just great for the street. L98s can definetly take some LT1s in 0-60/70MPH races and even take LS1s for a little while too until they start pulling. That's saying alot for the 1st real good GM performance EFI system and something that goes back to 85/87. I also like that it doesn't have some of the "tech advancements" that the LT1 has and I also like their sound better. That engine just makes incredible big block like TQ when modded excpet it's responsive and streetable.
The one real bad knock for the LT1 is the opti-spark. Although a great improvement over HEI, the location isn't the greatest. Any moisture and you have a chance of taking it out. It would have been much better putting it somewhere else, especially away from underneath the waterpump.
09-30-2003, 09:56 PM
#67
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an SD L98 will hit 60 in a little over 6...like 6.2...
when i built my LT1 motor i had that OPTI CRAP in mind...so i plugged that hole and ran a rea mount distributor on it...righ now its carbed but itll be back to FI..but ill run it off the 730 ECM rather then the OPTI
IMO the reverse cooling is a great idea...it was a reason i built an LT1
yea it was a 14.1 but i was only trapping at 96.5...completly stock it ran a 14.8@94..put better tires on it it ran a 14.4 at the same MPH....put a K&N, flowmaster and grinded down the EGR walls in the plenum and drove it a little harder...and it ran a 14.1....
ive only gained about 2 MPH...but it ran a 14.1 because of TRACTION...so how is that hard to beleive?
when i built my LT1 motor i had that OPTI CRAP in mind...so i plugged that hole and ran a rea mount distributor on it...righ now its carbed but itll be back to FI..but ill run it off the 730 ECM rather then the OPTI
IMO the reverse cooling is a great idea...it was a reason i built an LT1
Originally posted by StealthElephant
You got your 305 to run 14.1 with a muffler and KN? I would love to see that timeslip...
You got your 305 to run 14.1 with a muffler and KN? I would love to see that timeslip...
ive only gained about 2 MPH...but it ran a 14.1 because of TRACTION...so how is that hard to beleive?
10-01-2003, 11:40 AM
#68
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Originally posted by RobsWS6
What does a TPI do 0-60? LT1 cars do it under 6 seconds. I just don't see why everyone thinks the TPI has it all over the LT1 in torque. The LT1 made just as much at any rpm and continued it higher.
The one real bad knock for the LT1 is the opti-spark. Although a great improvement over HEI, the location isn't the greatest. Any moisture and you have a chance of taking it out. It would have been much better putting it somewhere else, especially away from underneath the waterpump.
What does a TPI do 0-60? LT1 cars do it under 6 seconds. I just don't see why everyone thinks the TPI has it all over the LT1 in torque. The LT1 made just as much at any rpm and continued it higher.
The one real bad knock for the LT1 is the opti-spark. Although a great improvement over HEI, the location isn't the greatest. Any moisture and you have a chance of taking it out. It would have been much better putting it somewhere else, especially away from underneath the waterpump.
TPI: 245HP@4400 and 345TQ@3200
LT1: 285HP@5200 and 325TQ@2400
Last edited by IZ28; 10-02-2003 at 10:19 PM.
10-02-2003, 12:23 AM
#69
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So, now earlier we were talking bang for the buck.
Well, an LS1 crate motor reatails for about $6500.
An L98 can be acquired and rebuilt with cast alum internals for about $2500, new intake $500, REALLY good heads and cam $2000. Total: $5000. Of which you'll be getting some real good "bang" out of the smallblock. Take the other $1500 left over pack that baby full of boost...again, this would be an interesting match for the LS1, at equivalent cost. [/B][/QUOTE]
HMMM comparing a new ls1 price to a used l98 price, that would be bang for the buck. now lets compare a used ls1 with 30k on it off of ebay for 2000 and... well do i really have to go any further...or you can get a used lt1 engine off of ebay for 1200 and well i wont go any further there either...
Well, an LS1 crate motor reatails for about $6500.
An L98 can be acquired and rebuilt with cast alum internals for about $2500, new intake $500, REALLY good heads and cam $2000. Total: $5000. Of which you'll be getting some real good "bang" out of the smallblock. Take the other $1500 left over pack that baby full of boost...again, this would be an interesting match for the LS1, at equivalent cost. [/B][/QUOTE]
HMMM comparing a new ls1 price to a used l98 price, that would be bang for the buck. now lets compare a used ls1 with 30k on it off of ebay for 2000 and... well do i really have to go any further...or you can get a used lt1 engine off of ebay for 1200 and well i wont go any further there either...
10-02-2003, 12:27 AM
#70
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oh yeah, and a "new" l98 intake for 500 bucks. I dont think so. You find me a high flow base, runners, and plenum, or a superram for 500 bucks, new, and i will buy as many as you have
10-02-2003, 03:50 PM
#71
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The stealth Ram from Summit. $299. That's about the cheapest one, but still very effective with the "tunnel ram" runner design. I'm doing an LT1 conversion for about $150, of course, that's used. There is a guy doing brand new Lt1 conversion kits for $400, brand new. There are other ones comprable for around $500-$600. You must not look very hard.
And what idiot would take a used motor with 30K and not have it totally cleaned and honed before rebuilding it??? That's why i said new. A used L98 would HAVE to be cleaned, but even a motor with 30K to run without rebuilding is complete idiocy. Granted, it can be done, but why trust what the previous owner has done to it??? So your 2K motor is NOT 2K. That woulda been like me saying an L98 could be had for $500. Which it CAN. No imbecile would RUN it like that, but it can be had, just like the 2K Ls1 can be had. I know my prices. I was very interested in running an LS1 in my car before i decieded to stick with L98. You MUST rebuild a used engine before running it, it's as simple as that. Those who don't are cutting one of the biggest corners.
And what idiot would take a used motor with 30K and not have it totally cleaned and honed before rebuilding it??? That's why i said new. A used L98 would HAVE to be cleaned, but even a motor with 30K to run without rebuilding is complete idiocy. Granted, it can be done, but why trust what the previous owner has done to it??? So your 2K motor is NOT 2K. That woulda been like me saying an L98 could be had for $500. Which it CAN. No imbecile would RUN it like that, but it can be had, just like the 2K Ls1 can be had. I know my prices. I was very interested in running an LS1 in my car before i decieded to stick with L98. You MUST rebuild a used engine before running it, it's as simple as that. Those who don't are cutting one of the biggest corners.
Last edited by kraftopia02; 10-02-2003 at 05:16 PM.
10-02-2003, 05:01 PM
#72
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Originally posted by IZ28
Some later stock L98s got like 5.9/5.8. They were pullng 6.0/6.2 0-60s when they were first put out in 87. BTW we'll compare the best regular model (not special or limited editions here) L98 against the best LT1.
TPI: 245HP@4400 and 345TQ@3200
LT1: 285HP@5200 325TQ@2400
Some later stock L98s got like 5.9/5.8. They were pullng 6.0/6.2 0-60s when they were first put out in 87. BTW we'll compare the best regular model (not special or limited editions here) L98 against the best LT1.
TPI: 245HP@4400 and 345TQ@3200
LT1: 285HP@5200 325TQ@2400
As for "special edition" cars, they didn't start breaking away from the standard LT1 until after 60mph. So they are the same.
And the rated numbers don't exactly tell the whole story. The TPI might have a higher peak but the area under the curve is no match for the LT1. The LT1 is just as low as the TPI but carries up the rpm band.
10-02-2003, 05:16 PM
#73
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Location: Manhattan, KS
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God created the LS1. If you want to see osme badass LS1 F-Bods or Y-Bods, www.LS1.com
There are tons of parts for the LS1. 11 second timeslips are possible without no forced induction, no nitrous. In fact, I wouldn't doubt a 10 second N/A no nitrous would be possible
I have the video on my other computer, a guy nicknamed Stealth has a 98-02 (not sure which year) Camaro SS. His LS1 is BUILT. In Denver (mile high, mind you) he ran a 9.90. That would run about an 8.x at sea level. I'd like to see a TPI do this
Don't get me wrong, I love all F-Bodies, which includes the third gens. I'd love to have a built 3rd gen, but these days it's eaiser to go with a 4th gen that already has an LS1 with a T-56 in it. It's rediculously easy to get massive power out of an LS1. That's the bottom line
There are tons of parts for the LS1. 11 second timeslips are possible without no forced induction, no nitrous. In fact, I wouldn't doubt a 10 second N/A no nitrous would be possible
I have the video on my other computer, a guy nicknamed Stealth has a 98-02 (not sure which year) Camaro SS. His LS1 is BUILT. In Denver (mile high, mind you) he ran a 9.90. That would run about an 8.x at sea level. I'd like to see a TPI do this
Don't get me wrong, I love all F-Bodies, which includes the third gens. I'd love to have a built 3rd gen, but these days it's eaiser to go with a 4th gen that already has an LS1 with a T-56 in it. It's rediculously easy to get massive power out of an LS1. That's the bottom line
10-02-2003, 05:18 PM
#74
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As for factory rated numbers, the ones GM gave the LS1 are such a joke. I've seen MANY F-Body LS1's that give "325" HP put down anywhere between 300 to 320 to the wheels
LS1
LS1
10-02-2003, 05:44 PM
#75
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we are still stuck on the TPI...grrr...see my other posts.
And except for the very few people who put heads and stroked their ls1, no one else has gone deeper than to put on an Ls6 intake!
And i have YET to see an Ls1 that puts down much over 300 horses bone stock. i've seen ranges from 290-310. No more. Respectable, but not huge.
Why are you guys so obsessed that this is a godsend motor???
The 302 in the 60s put down BETTER horses, although it did not get the times an Ls1 does due much to gearing and tires, etc. The new mustang GTs are hanging with the Z06. The pontiac 400 or 455 or the BOSS 351 could blow a fourthgen into next week when built correctly. I understand that the LS1 is a very good motor, and i do not deny that. But there is PLENTY of room for improvement, and it is CERTAINLY not the ONLY motor out there worth commenting on. Even the "lowly" L98 as you guys make it to be such a thing of the past...can be built enough to run with this new band-wagon motor. All i ask is that we are a little more open minded and stop thinking that the Ls1 is the end all of motorsports.
And except for the very few people who put heads and stroked their ls1, no one else has gone deeper than to put on an Ls6 intake!
And i have YET to see an Ls1 that puts down much over 300 horses bone stock. i've seen ranges from 290-310. No more. Respectable, but not huge.
Why are you guys so obsessed that this is a godsend motor???
The 302 in the 60s put down BETTER horses, although it did not get the times an Ls1 does due much to gearing and tires, etc. The new mustang GTs are hanging with the Z06. The pontiac 400 or 455 or the BOSS 351 could blow a fourthgen into next week when built correctly. I understand that the LS1 is a very good motor, and i do not deny that. But there is PLENTY of room for improvement, and it is CERTAINLY not the ONLY motor out there worth commenting on. Even the "lowly" L98 as you guys make it to be such a thing of the past...can be built enough to run with this new band-wagon motor. All i ask is that we are a little more open minded and stop thinking that the Ls1 is the end all of motorsports.