FutureZMan

sweet to say the least

Privateer454

The first two are easy:

Base (Type LT or LT are ok, BUT NO LS ALLOWED!)
RS (base plus V8 model looks-think Mustang Pony)

Now here comes the hard one, the SS-Z/28 debate...

For me, I go with the SS being the volume performer with the full list of options available, including T-tops or 'vert options.

Z/28 is the true top dog performance wise. Either debuts at the same time as SS with the same engine and 6 speed only, no t-tops or 'vert OR (I hate to say it but...) wait 18 months to get a Z/28 with a extra 100 hp.

However, if we look at the way things went down with the 4th. gen, then it will be just the opposite. We will get the Z/28 as the volume performance model and 18 months from then we will get a SS model with more performance.

Chrome383Z

Don't underestimate the 302V8. They've handed plenty of Big Blocks their *** before. 350-400 estimated fwhp. These things were screamers with a solid roller and I believe an 850cfm. A deep set of gears (I believe available from the factory) and you could go big block hunting in the 1/4. Back then with Bias-Ply's too much torque would hurt you on the street and a high winding small block worked excellent (now enter slicks and you have a whole different ballgame...)

Caps94ZODG

I did I almost bought one..

bossco

Until Ford introduced the GT , it had what performance halo car to market with?

Fords most recognizable perf car is the mustang, so it was natural for them to have so many interations. GM has the vette and has had the vette to market a high end perf car. Hence, they didn't need to make a high end camaro. The vette is essentially where their average perf car ends and the high end perf car begins.

As many people have said and suggested, why would GM make a pony car that would leave the vette sucking in the wind?

Personally I like this 3 car idea

Base V6: coupe or convertible shares interior options with V8 cars, can upgrade to V6 sport package (suspension, appearence and intake/exhaust tuning), 18 to 25k

RS - Base V8: coupe or convertible, shares V6 interior options and can have fully optioned interior, 300 or 350 hp, a few appearence options to differentiate form V6 (wheels, air bra... I mean wings, splitters, etc.), 23 to 30k

Z/28 - Top V8: Coupe or convertibe with 400+ HP V8, fully loaded interior as well as an appearence that cannot be optioned by RS or V6 cars. 28k+

Eric77TA

Anyone who says the 67-79 Z/28 had "Just" a 302, needs to read up on the 67-69 Z/28. The 302 was underrated at 290 horses. A stock 302 Z/28 vs. a stock SS350 (295 horse) is no contest. The Z/28 will win.

375 Horse 396 cars are fairly rare - less than 5,000 built in 1969, with some 8,000 or so 396 cars with the 325 and 350 horse 396s built. There were more than 20,000 Z/28s built in 1969. While I have no doubt that the 375 horse 396 will show its taillights to a Z on the drag strip, I think a Z vs. the 325 or 350 horse 396 would be closer than you'd think.

So, I think if you were to go back to the streets in 1969, when most SS Camaros running around were of the 350 variety, I think you'd find the Z/28 was, for the most part, the top dog. The SS models were fast, and are extremely cool, but they aren't the all around performance cars the Z/28s were. SS back then was very similar to what Chevy is doing with it today. The Z was something really special - more equivelant to what a Corvette Z06 is to a regular 'Vette.

SS350 package cost $295.00 at the beginning of the '69 model year. Z/28 package was $458, plus the cost of the mandatory heavy duty 4 speed, guage package and power front disc brakes (4 wheel discs recommended). So it was around $900 by the time you were finished ordering - a much more complete performance package.

FutureZMan

the horse of course

Yes, but GM needs to get over this Start | stoping none-sense. I honestly feal the base Vette needs to be @ 500HP, Z06 in 600-650 HP area. This would allow them so much more room for the Camaro.

The Mustang will have the GT 300HP | GT500 450-500HP | Cobra 400HP in the next 24-36 months.

So i dont see why they wouldnt want to answer back in 08' (or whenever it launchs) with a Z28 400HP | SS 450HP | ZL1 500HP, Yes i know this isnt going to happen, but maybe what killed the camaro was lack of risks and flare. I love the F4, but they never really went out on a limb with it in the past few years.

The re-introduction of a true street machine Z/28, or even a Hot Limited production $20,000 option ZL1 would have saved the F-bod of this vacation its been on for the past 4 years, will be a possible 2 more before we see them coming off the line.

Enthusiast's Love hot special edition cars, hell look at the Cobra R's which in retrospect arn't even that hot compared to an equal GM, but coming from the house of the blue oval they where damn hot, and inspired people to eat up the name Mustang.

I think if GM launched a ZL1 even as a limited production $60,000 camaro (yes i know i know...) with the re-birtch of the Camaro, it would light a fire under the auto industrys performance markets.

it all comes down to the "Gotta be different" idea system, and that system is proving mighty lucrative for DCX and Ford atm, time for GM to open there eyes, and even more... There minds.

The Vette' and camaro usually from my personal experiance have two intirely seperate audiances. The camaro seems to be more for the street racing, gear bangers who love performance, and this stands true i see some older people who absolutly adore the Camaro, and dispise the Vette' or care little of it.

The same is sad for the Vette people, they are Vette people, they usually dont like that our cars share drivetrains, and insist superiority.

Chevy needs to realize these are two seperate markets, yes GM has identified the Vette' as there halo car damn near since its birth, but usually people buy these cars for different reasons. Vette' people always come off to me as, all about the bells and whistles and want some performance to back it up.

Most Camaro owners i know, are all about ***** to the wall street roaming pony war fun. HP needs to stop being the limitation that GM allows to hold back some of there more Fan based cars.

sounds good.

I guess a standard 5.3 for a RS model option would be great, even if its a standard Impy SS engine, something kinda spicy but not the whole deal.

I dont see GM doing this, but hey for a $2000-$3000 option, it could be enough to make the sales volume rocket, putting the RS in GT's territory would be nice.

Needs to have 1LE options, when | if the new camaro is launched, i personally wont be buying one unless i can get her stripped.

But thats just me.

jg95z28

...And the cross ram version of the 302 put out over 500 hp.

Sure the SS had a big block option, and the L78s and 427 COPOs were damn badass beasts of machines. However, for anyone to say the Z28 should be second to the SS is completely forgetting what the Z28 and Camaro were originally created for in the first place. Of course, if back in 1967 the SCCA had allowed 5.7L displacement in its sedan class, we wouldn't be having this argument in the first place.

In year one, I see three Camaros:
Base V6
Luxury V6
V8 SS

Later perhaps a convertible and a Z06-like Z28.

I suggested LS and LT for the trim options based on Guy's earlier post. (Yeah, I was listening, but I don't know if GM was. )

Forget about RS. Chevrolet hasn't had an RS model in some time, and the 4th gen RS Camaros were nothing like the original Rally Sports they were named after.

There won't be a stripper V8 model either. You'll get one V8, the SS. It'll be a detuned version of the base Corvette motor. ("Detuned" could be as little as a more restrictive exhaust system.) If the Camaro is going to be profittable for GM, it needs to be streamlined. That means fewer models and fewer optional engine packages than in the past. That does not neccessarily mean fewer options, as the current trend seems to be personal customization.

We can all dream of radical versions and multiple drivetrain options, but let's be a little realistic for a minute, shall we? If its done right, do we really need more than a V6 and a V8, provided each can be customized as the buyer sees fit?

Chrome383Z

Jesus,

I wonder how many people here have ever been behind a 400hp car let alone a 500hp car.

You make them too powerful nobody will buy them. Period.

Your general public likes to have a "Loaded" camaro without being afraid to hit the gas pedal with a xxx hp engine. Why do you think the 4th gens sold so terrible??? Alot of the cool features the SS packages had (cosmetic, etc...) could only be had with a screaming LS1 and that lost alot of potential buyers to the Mustangs that were alot more "street" friendly.

IMO, that's why a couple V6 models need to be available like I said 3.6 base, 3.9 LT, 5.3 SS, and 6.0 Z28 = Good Sales.

Chrome383Z

I dunno, I think the 5.3V8 would be an excellent engine for the SS???

EDIT: Maybe with an OPTION for a "Detuned 375hp 6.0L"

Save the 400-425 6.0L for the Z28.

FutureZMan

My thoughts exactly, they wont be tossing some spiced up "Camaro only" motor in the Camaros.

It will be a base Vette LSx, With come sticky exhaust to detune her, to keep it below the Vette.

It is fun to dream however.

Base V6
Luxury V6
Super Sport 400HP LSx
and a Racer boy inspired Curve Carving Z/28 maybe a little more spicey then the SS.

The SS isnt really what it used to be (the nameplate) the SS now is the entry level semi-hot package, usually resulting in a V6 upgrade, V8 in the impala.

I think maybe as suggested before, the Z will become the new ultra class letter. Z06 and its smaller cousin Z28.

This could be why, its been suggested by reliable sources on here, that at launch there will be no Z28, which this intire idea sounds great to me!

jg95z28

However, other than the truck 5.3L all the other current 5.3Ls are FWD. Even the SSR, which originally had a unique 5.3L RWD set-up is now running the 6.0L LS2.

I honestly don't see a need for the V8 Camaro to have different drivetrain options than the Corvette.

jg95z28

That I agree with and have been preaching for well over a year now... ever since the martian suggested it.

FutureZMan

Maybe im nieve, but i just dont see that happening.

They wont bring back the camaro, just to toss a 303HP 5.3 in her, sure that could be 350HP by the time of launch (Im talking about them just being able to yank them off the shelf w/ no tuning, tuning makes production costs go up) but the 5.3, just isnt a what the doctor ordered.

I would almost gaurentee when the camaro returns, it will be sporting a Base Vette motor, its the most logical and easiest solution to powering the Camaro V8 models.

different exhaust manifolds are much cheaper then different intake, heads and other small adds needed to make the 5.3 hot enough for street performing.

FutureZMan

hell, thats the kinda stuff dreams are made of