^ I don't think I'll believe much more untill I hear it from Jason, Chris or Scott S. A Berlinetta would be something to bring back.


Premium Beer Member .... ................

 

Ooooooh. Can it have a "Retro" inspired digital dash

 

I hate to drag up old stuff like this , but I just gotta say (sorry, not to flame you jg95z28) but ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yktwC3u3TgU

... someone's got their facts wrong!!!

The 4th-gen GMMG built "ZL-1's" were an LSx-based (technically C5-R) 427 . I even have a Hot Rod mag write-up on the car from 2002. It was NOT a "big-block", and was NOT 454 c.i. .

 

You should know better than to trust Youtube.

From just one of several GM dealers that still have access to the RAM Jet ZL1 crate motor.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...99&btnG=Search

Go ahead... I want you hear you say you are wrong and I am right.

 

Well I'll be, you just never know when you are going to see people you know.
I'll have to tell David that his car came up in conversation.

This video must be fairly old since I don't see a car seat in the back.

Like Cap'n Pete said ZL-1's were LS1 based motors. You could go from a basic LS6 all the way up to a C5R blocked 427 with Roberts racing LS6 heads.

The LSX motors are considered "mid displacement" engines by GM not really small or big block.

There were however a select few ZL-1 454 crate engines built by GMPP, and as for the GMP ZL-1 concept the engine in that evades me at the moment but I want to lean twords 427.

 

Its obviously an apples and oranges thing here guys. Go back several pages and you'll see I clearly stated that the GMMG ZL1 Camaros had an LS based motor, unlike the GMPP crate motors which were aluminum big blocks displacing 454 ci. Up to a few months ago the Ramjet ZL1 454 was still available in the GMPP catalog. However its since been replaced by the Ramjet 502.

 

How about Hot Rod?




Ain't happening!

I think the point here is, The "ZL-1" Camaro was built by GMMG, with an LSx engine ... do we agree??

You're saying that GMPP built a "ZL-1 RamJet 454", but that's an ENGINE that ANYBODY could buy, and put into ANY car, no?? It's not a purpose built CAR/ENGINE/PACKAGE .

So what was WRONG with that youtube video again??????

 

You're missing the point. Go check the Hot Rod archives, they first published the availability of the GMPP Crate ZL1 454 and later the Ramjet ZL1 454. The GMMG Camaros, although cool, are aftermarket cars built outside of GM. If memory serves me correctly, the GMPP crate ZL1 454 was available (or at least planned) before the GMMG ZL1 Camaros.

In a way we are both right. However unlike you, I aknowledged that both ZL1s existed. The bottom line is historically from GM's perspective, the ZL1 has always been a big block.

 

You based that off of the 454 ZL1 Crate motor? Are you kidding? Yeah you can put any motor including a ZL1 454 in the car but the 69 2002 ZL1 Camaros had the 427 not the 454...

 

There is really only one flaw in what you said and that was that the ZL-1's were aftermarket and built outside of GM. They are in fact built in conjunction with GM and thus will be recognized as a GM vehicle. GMMG has strong ties to GM and thus it made cars like the the ZL-1 and the Dick Harrell possible.

Here check out there new site and the history video..it better explains their place.
http://www.gmmginc.net/

 

Not all did, only a handful did initally until Matt decided to make the option availible. After that many owners opted to do the swap but there are seveal still out there with the LS6's still in them whether they be Phase I or II.

I think at last count I was told a total of 49 had been converted phase III.

 

Hey, maybe we're both equally right/wrong ... I dunno?! It seems like a couple others support the GMMG cars as the "authentic" ZL-1's though?

And my thoughts are, an ENGINE doesn't make a car. ie: the LS6 or LS7 don't automatically make a 'Vette a Z06 ... it's the whole "package". So just because GMPP built a "ZL-1" big-block, and you could buy one and put it into your Camaro, doesn't automatically make your Camaro a ZL-1 . That's my thoughts, but I don't know all the in's and out's of the GMPP "concept" ZL-1, so I'm going to stop talking about stuff I know not!!

 

On that, I agree with you 100%. Where we don't agree is that GM actually made ZL1 Camaros back in 1969. Then it was all about the engine as essentially the only "real" difference between the COPO 427s and the ZL1s was the aluminum block. (ZL1 was the engine option code.) I think the GMMG Phase III Camaros are awesome cars. I only wish they hadn't used the ZL-1 tag, which in this case only means 427 cid, which is not what made an "original ZL1" a ZL1.

GM decided to honor the history of the aluminum big block Chevy by developing a ZL1 crate motor. (ZL1s were available as crate motors back in the day.) However unlike the original, they chose a 454 cubic inch displacement. GM themselves called it the ZL1. Had they done it again today, who knows what displacement it would have been. (502, 572?) The whole GMMG deal was a win/win for both GMMG and GM. GM got rid of excess inventory, and GMMG got to say they had GMs support and backing to build the cars and use the ZL-1 name. I personally have no problem if GMMG continues to build and develop Phase III/ZL-1 Camaros with the 5th gen as well. I just don't agree that a "ZL-1" should come directly from GM. Especially when the name "ZL-1" has nothing to do with the engine used in the vehicle.

 

I've been watching the discussion, and the idea of anyone- GM or GMMG, I don't care- slapping an aluminum block 502 into the 5th gen makes me squirm with desire.

That would be a sick ride. Nose heavy, sure, but evil fast once the tires hooked up. In 5th gear, probably.

 

I am not sure I am following you here.

Are you saying that the Motor alone made a car a ZL-1 or are you saying it was a complete package?


By definition what made a ZL-1 a ZL-1 was being one of the select few to have bought one of either the 50 COPO 9560 optioned Camaros, or the other 19 who bought COPO 9560 optioned Camaros from various other dealers like Berger.

These cars were spartan and basic, all shared a common required package which GM mandated to included both power front disc brakes and either a Muncie or TH400 Tranny. And then of coarse the main attraction which was the aluminum block and head ZL-1 Engine named 9560 or RPO code ZL-1.

Basicly the motor was what made the car what it was. All of the other options were not really unique to the ZL-1 alone.

I would love to see GM rekindle the ZL-1 motor sake for the Camaro and the Corvette as their top dog. I realize the older models were in extreme low production numbers but GM doesn't necessarily have to repeat history here and make the as limited this time around. By making the ZL-1 the top dog it won't hurt the value of the previous cars because their production numbers will never change. I really would like to see GM produce about 8,000 units or so of the ZL-1 per year I think it would be a great package.


Sorry just my .02