NEWS: GM Reportedly Calls "Game On" For Supercharged 550HP Camaro Z/28
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
Alittle loose with the "facts" there bud.....
I think in that regard, it won't be pretty.
No one I know either, and I've been paying pretty close attention.
I think in that regard, it won't be pretty.
No one I know either, and I've been paying pretty close attention.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,505
From: Charleston, WV
Have you been asleep for the last 6 years? WTF does this comment do but IGNORE the constant posted desire of those of us who actually still love to drive a responsive car, to have the Z/28 return to it’s reason for being? A lighter weight version that is purpose built for handling. I think 426hp is sufficient and could even be slightly enhanced…and coupled with REAL engineering and handling, could be that very car that deserves the Z/28 moniker.
Doesn’t it disappoint and p*ss you off that the SS is getting slammed in every comparison to the Mustang?
Great attitude for an bankrupt, tax dollar supported, corporation…. ‘Let’s p*ss away valuable dollars on a limited production vehicle just so we can monkey-see-monkey-do what Ford does’….instead of getting the cars they already build right and perform better than them.
Great attitude for an bankrupt, tax dollar supported, corporation…. ‘Let’s p*ss away valuable dollars on a limited production vehicle just so we can monkey-see-monkey-do what Ford does’….instead of getting the cars they already build right and perform better than them.
Pisses me off more so that they are making this car & there are people disappointed before any official specs are released...before they have even seen OR driven it....they are calling it a failure...
Not everyone revolves their sports car purchase around road racing....
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Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 2,282
True z28? Just because it's you're ideal z28 doesn't make it a "true" one...
You're really taking the z28 name WAYYYY to seriously. Beginning to sound like a GTO owner...
EVERY comparison? There were multiple comparisons it actually won. You're "automobile" magazine doesn't count as every...
Pisses me off more so that they are making this car & there are people disappointed before any official specs are released...before they have even seen OR driven it....they are calling it a failure...
Not everyone revolves their sports car purchase around road racing....
You're really taking the z28 name WAYYYY to seriously. Beginning to sound like a GTO owner...
EVERY comparison? There were multiple comparisons it actually won. You're "automobile" magazine doesn't count as every...
Pisses me off more so that they are making this car & there are people disappointed before any official specs are released...before they have even seen OR driven it....they are calling it a failure...
Not everyone revolves their sports car purchase around road racing....
At least the Automobile article was performed by REAL drivers, not some magazine hack....ignoring these kinds of drivers is why you get mediocrity....instead of world class.
Here's another loss for you to absorb.....even an aftermarket version looses....
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do.../pageId=171642
Last edited by Doug Harden; Sep 27, 2009 at 12:12 PM.
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Joined: Nov 1998
Posts: 3,252
From: Knoxville, TN
Just a quick note....I'm a drag racer, and I care about excessive mass just as much as any of you hardcore cornering dudes. Maybe I'm not quite as vocal about it anymore....I can take hints....lol.
That's all. Kindly carry on with this thread....it is most entertaining!
That's all. Kindly carry on with this thread....it is most entertaining!
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
Is the GTO anology really the best one? I don't think anyone at GM wants to compare or touch that with a 10 foot pole.
EVERY comparison? There were multiple comparisons it actually won. You're "automobile" magazine doesn't count as every...
Pisses me off more so that they are making this car & there are people disappointed before any official specs are released...before they have even seen OR driven it....they are calling it a failure...
Pisses me off more so that they are making this car & there are people disappointed before any official specs are released...before they have even seen OR driven it....they are calling it a failure...
This car won't fail. Every one will be sold at full MSRP and dealer mark up - especially if production is limited. But I can't imagine how it will outperform or even hang with a 300+ pound lighter GT500 of similar power. You know, it would be nice if Camaro posted afew more 'wins' in some of these reviews, instead of also rans. Makes for good publicity.
Very true. But you do kinda expect a car with a "Z/28" emblem on it to have that focus.
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,505
From: Charleston, WV
Just because you don't give a damn what they call it, then at least call it something else....simple really.
At least the Automobile article was performed by REAL drivers, not some magazine hack....ignoring these kinds of drivers is why you get mediocrity....instead of world class.
Here's another loss for you to absorb.....even an aftermarket version looses....
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do.../pageId=171642
At least the Automobile article was performed by REAL drivers, not some magazine hack....ignoring these kinds of drivers is why you get mediocrity....instead of world class.
Here's another loss for you to absorb.....even an aftermarket version looses....
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do.../pageId=171642
Honestly I could care less about Automobile or any other magazine's opinion. I'm not going to let someone else's opinion influence mine...
Who cares how the Hennessey does against the GT500? It's nothing like the Z28 aside from a S/C motor. It's also cost 25% more than the 500...
For every test the SS loses to the GT there are 2 that it wins....if not more...yeah most complain about the weight and/or handling but the overall package is better...
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,505
From: Charleston, WV
Pretty much a moot point....same w/the other side which GM is going with...
Taking it seriously is good...but saying it's wrong before even seeing or driving it could be considered extreme....you did enjoy driving the CTS-V...who knows maybe you'll like it...then you can take off the Z28 badges 
Pretty much the same situation...no? using "definitions" of the car....except this is performance based rather than looks
I was referring to overall package...
The CTS-V which is quite a bit heavier than a GT500 is quicker...so who knows what GM can pull off...
I wouldn't say "focus" To me handling is one of the last things that comes to mind....Handling is usually brought up after you lose in a straight line....
I would expect the z28 to have a BIG V-8 under the hood, to be fast...and handle well....I think most people would agree. When it comes out it will be one of the best bangs for you buck as it always has been...
Well, some of us DO take it seriously. Sure would make sense for Chevy to tap into that emotion to - you know - sell cars.
Is the GTO anology really the best one? I don't think anyone at GM wants to compare or touch that with a 10 foot pole.
I haven't seen any comparos where there is a handling preference for the Camaro over the Mustang.
This car won't fail. Every one will be sold at full MSRP and dealer mark up - especially if production is limited. But I can't imagine how it will outperform or even hang with a 300+ pound lighter GT500 of similar power. You know, it would be nice if Camaro posted afew more 'wins' in some of these reviews, instead of also rans. Makes for good publicity.
Very true. But you do kinda expect a car with a "Z/28" emblem on it to have that focus.
I would expect the z28 to have a BIG V-8 under the hood, to be fast...and handle well....I think most people would agree. When it comes out it will be one of the best bangs for you buck as it always has been...
Last edited by 95redLT1; Sep 27, 2009 at 06:07 PM.
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From: SeVa
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,123
From: Melbourne, Australia
First:
Well they certainly are getting lambasted by all the magazines and other reviews for poor handling and numb steering…on the SS model no less. My time behind the wheel confirms this. What would make one think that adding 200#+/- on the nose of the car will make it defy the laws of physics? I was devastated to read the Automobile article that had two race car drivers calling it a ‘pig that won’t turn’….
Well they certainly are getting lambasted by all the magazines and other reviews for poor handling and numb steering…on the SS model no less. My time behind the wheel confirms this. What would make one think that adding 200#+/- on the nose of the car will make it defy the laws of physics? I was devastated to read the Automobile article that had two race car drivers calling it a ‘pig that won’t turn’….
Like any good racer, you learn to adapt to the car's basic attitude.
If you were to hop out of the Camaro and immediately into (say) a Porsche, then you would feel the steering difference between the two. But if you are racing just the Camaro, you learn its manners and drive it accordingly. If you still don't like the chassis' dynamics, you can alter it quite easily to suit or driving style... like any good racer.
It's nothing too hard, is it?
Complaining about the car's weight only means that the Camaro is not the right car for you if you are that concerned. The Z28 is definitely not the right car for you if you don't like blowers. And if GM called it anything other than Z/28, it still won't be the right car for you... but it will be a great car, I'm sure, and your negative opinions won't stop many from buying them up.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,123
From: Melbourne, Australia
Just a quick note....I'm a drag racer, and I care about excessive mass just as much as any of you hardcore cornering dudes. Maybe I'm not quite as vocal about it anymore....I can take hints....lol.
That's all. Kindly carry on with this thread....it is most entertaining!
That's all. Kindly carry on with this thread....it is most entertaining!
The point I make is that whenever a production car makes it to the track, it usually never remains stock. In other words, all the arguments here (steering, mass, push, grip, power, tyres, wheels etc get some serious attention) become a moot point as nobody ever races a perfectly stock car as some magazines have done.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,123
From: Melbourne, Australia
The HSV W427 storms forward with an alacrity belying the near-1.9-tonne, four-door-sedan body.
...
HSV has calibrated the stability control system specifically for the W427, allowing for more spirited driving before it steps in. It can still be switched off for those who want, but even when engaged the system will allow for brisk lapping, albeit without the power slides the W427 is itching to do.
To go with the W427’s extra performance, HSV has also upgraded the independent suspension. Springs are 30 per cent stiffer than those used on the HSV GTS and the W427 sits 20mm closer to the ground to reduce leaning through corners for improved stability.
The result is added agility, particularly with the way the W427 remains composed into and through corners. There’s loads of cornering grip, giving the driver the sort of confidence required to slowly feed more power to the rear wheels.
The HSV W427 does lean when driven hard into corners, but it’s well controlled, particularly by the standards of a road car.
Brakes, too, are the best HSV has ever fitted to one of its road cars. The 20-inch wheels were even specially chosen to fit over the larger, six-piston brake calipers.
And the brakes work superbly, ably and briskly slowing the W427 from even above 200km/h. The brake pedal remains firm and progressive, better allowing the car’s performance to be experienced.
Of course there are negatives with the HSV W427, although most are unlikely to faze most buyers.
With all that power – and performance – the W427 is one of the thirstiest vehicles on the market, slurping an average of 17.2 litres of premium unleaded every 100 kilometres travelled; a lot more if you drive it enthusiastically, as we did. That’s around 20 per cent more than other V8 sedans and double an average mid-sized car.
http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/Ar...=55248&IsPgd=0
http://www.carsales.com.au/reviews/2...ls63-amg-11151
...
HSV has calibrated the stability control system specifically for the W427, allowing for more spirited driving before it steps in. It can still be switched off for those who want, but even when engaged the system will allow for brisk lapping, albeit without the power slides the W427 is itching to do.
To go with the W427’s extra performance, HSV has also upgraded the independent suspension. Springs are 30 per cent stiffer than those used on the HSV GTS and the W427 sits 20mm closer to the ground to reduce leaning through corners for improved stability.
The result is added agility, particularly with the way the W427 remains composed into and through corners. There’s loads of cornering grip, giving the driver the sort of confidence required to slowly feed more power to the rear wheels.
The HSV W427 does lean when driven hard into corners, but it’s well controlled, particularly by the standards of a road car.
Brakes, too, are the best HSV has ever fitted to one of its road cars. The 20-inch wheels were even specially chosen to fit over the larger, six-piston brake calipers.
And the brakes work superbly, ably and briskly slowing the W427 from even above 200km/h. The brake pedal remains firm and progressive, better allowing the car’s performance to be experienced.
Of course there are negatives with the HSV W427, although most are unlikely to faze most buyers.
With all that power – and performance – the W427 is one of the thirstiest vehicles on the market, slurping an average of 17.2 litres of premium unleaded every 100 kilometres travelled; a lot more if you drive it enthusiastically, as we did. That’s around 20 per cent more than other V8 sedans and double an average mid-sized car.
http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/Ar...=55248&IsPgd=0
http://www.carsales.com.au/reviews/2...ls63-amg-11151
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,505
From: Charleston, WV
Let's imagine the Ad's....."We threw this big ol' heavy supercharger on it and as long as you don't have to turn very much, it'll out run a 3 YO GT500!"........or....."Some people think that a one trick pony makes a world class car. At GM we already have the power, now we've added world class handling in a lighter, more fuel efficient package, that'll run with cars costing 5X as much."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QHPlPDnb_8
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,306
From: Jersey Shore
I agree with the less weight Z28 idea.
The SS's poor handling is upsetting. The talk of heavy understeer and numb steering isnt being compared to a Porsche Caymen or a Ferrari 599...its being compared to a Ford Mustang.
And whats worse, is that Ford isnt benchmarking the Camaro. Its bench marking the M3, the king of the 2 door, 4 seater performance coupe market this side of 80k.
the Z28 needs to bench mark the M3 as well.
The Camaro team needs to get back to the track and tighten that suspension up. IMO, that should be easy. The chassis has the ability to do this, I just dont know how Chevy launched a Camaro with any weaknesses, at least hold it off for teh 3rd or 4th year!!
If Ford does actually make this magical 400hp Pony, and prices it accordingly, the Mustang will toss the Camaro off the track.
Things need to be done.
Back to the Z28. Cut 200lbs off the car, boost power another 20hp. Forged wheels, 2pc rotors, remove sound insulation as every review says that the car is very quiet at speeds. 25lbs here, 50lbs here, another 50 there....we are on our way to 200lbs.
I heard that the rear mufflers themsevles were about 35-40lbs for the both of them??
GONE! Pick up the 15-20hp with retuning, maybe slightly different cam, better exhaust, hell HSV has a 440hp LS3. Put on the V6 front bumper with better chin spoiler. Try and smooth it out as much as possible. I wonder how much a carbon fiber hood would be, and the weight savings for that?
The SS's poor handling is upsetting. The talk of heavy understeer and numb steering isnt being compared to a Porsche Caymen or a Ferrari 599...its being compared to a Ford Mustang.
And whats worse, is that Ford isnt benchmarking the Camaro. Its bench marking the M3, the king of the 2 door, 4 seater performance coupe market this side of 80k.
the Z28 needs to bench mark the M3 as well.
The Camaro team needs to get back to the track and tighten that suspension up. IMO, that should be easy. The chassis has the ability to do this, I just dont know how Chevy launched a Camaro with any weaknesses, at least hold it off for teh 3rd or 4th year!!
If Ford does actually make this magical 400hp Pony, and prices it accordingly, the Mustang will toss the Camaro off the track.
Things need to be done.
Back to the Z28. Cut 200lbs off the car, boost power another 20hp. Forged wheels, 2pc rotors, remove sound insulation as every review says that the car is very quiet at speeds. 25lbs here, 50lbs here, another 50 there....we are on our way to 200lbs.
I heard that the rear mufflers themsevles were about 35-40lbs for the both of them??
GONE! Pick up the 15-20hp with retuning, maybe slightly different cam, better exhaust, hell HSV has a 440hp LS3. Put on the V6 front bumper with better chin spoiler. Try and smooth it out as much as possible. I wonder how much a carbon fiber hood would be, and the weight savings for that?