LOL............ thanks.

I would think (I know, there I go thinking again) that a female perspective, may be welcomed on the site. How many other women are here??

Anyway, it is silly that I have become a topic of conversation. If you don't like what I post, then don't read my posts. It really is as simple as that. Much in the same way that those who attack others, for their opinions, have the choice of not reading "offending" posts.

We all have our own opinions on what we want in our vehicles. Nobody's is completely right, and none are completely wrong. They are, after all, our opinions.............. and you know what they say about opinions.

BTW, I look at the Z28, from my husbands perspective. He had a 1968 Z28, and used to love going canyon carving, in that car. My love of good handling cars, goes back to an early (read 1983) troublesome boyfriend. When I would get mad at him, I would drive, as fast as humanly possible, up a winding desert road, to Saguaro lake. I soon found that I had so much fun doing so, that I would just do so.............. for the fun. That is also when I started looking at potential vehicular purchases, from a handling perspective. I have road raced (hey, it was a long time ago............ and I was stupid, what can I say), and autocrossed also. While I have run the 1/4 mile, on numerous occasions, I find it boring and repetative. It is, after all, the same 1/4 mile............. over and over. Different strokes, for different folks.

This is why good handling means so much to me. It is that passion........... that one with the car, feeling every nuance of what the suspension is telling you............. to push the vehicle even further............. that gives me shivers. Heck, it is almost as good as sex.

Back to our regular scheduled Z28 arguement/discussion.

 

Doug,

It seems to me that this current state of affairs has been in place since GM's decision to cut the F-body. After that the Camaro lost it's own platform and GM turned away from RWD. By the time the market seemed to change and the 2005 Mustang and later the Challenger made the idea of a retro Camaro's return a good and potentially profitable idea... GM didn't have a proper RWD platform for it. So we get a modified Zeta sedan architecture and all the issues that go along with that. It's the best GM could do with what they had. And I’d still take this Camaro any day over none at all.

That being said this Camaro is a great car for what it is and is selling well in this automotive climate. It's reaching out to people who wouldn't give any other GM car the time of day. It's also getting press as the halo car for a reborn GM. From the days when the Camaro was treated like a unwanted step child to see the new chairman use the car in an TV commercial as a sign of the best GM has to offer is amazing. This car may not be a home run for the purists and those looking to weekend race it but for a company needing a hit and some good news it’s a success. I fully expect the car to improve and just like the 2010 Mustang is much better than the 2005 and the 2002 Camaro better than the 1993 there is a lot they can do. There are also some fundamental elements to the car that can't change. We just need to hope that this car continues to sell well and proves its importance in the Chevy lineup so that a more responsible CAFE friendly 6th Generation can follow.

Some of us have stated that maybe it would be best to skip using Z/28 on the 5th Gen. While I’m not as upset in the use of the nomenclature on this LSA powered 5th Gen because like JG95Z28 has stated the Z/28 RPO has been diluted over the years since loosing the slash. It’s also a different world where race cars share so much less with production cars than they did in the 60’s. Looking at the Z28’s competition it would be hard to fault GM’s decision to produce the car the way it will. And despite some complaints here I don’t think the Z28 will do the Camaro wrong by any means. If the goal down the line is getting the best Camaro possible then this is just another stepping stone.

 

Ryan,

I know full well why we got what we have......what I don't get are all the compromises that would have seemed to be easily rectified.

It's unconcionable to me to have NOT put the pedals in a proper heal-toe position....it's a matter of simple bending the pedal arms in a better way....but someone either didn't want to or just flat missed it....even with the 'clinics', it was missed or 'excused'.

It's dumbfounding to have also gotten the steering feel wrong...much less having built in so much understeer, that any spirited driving reminds you immediately, that this is a heavy car. I died a little inside when I read PJ Jones and Donahue's coments in Automobile Magazine....and all of the others too.

It's unforgivable to have used such cheap looking / feeling sunvisors in a $30k car. Was saving that $ really worth having to feel like it's going to snap off in your hand if you used it?

The latest insult was the addition of the back up sensors.......

Now we hear that instead of making the car better, it's simply getting faster at an even higher price....

 

Why didn't GM use the LS7 then because the SC is a more practical engine to get those kinds of numbers? Same situation with the Camaro...V-6 or the big engine...now there will be an even bigger choice...there is absolutely no reason this car wont sell. To say they wont buy it because of weight is absurd.

I assume by "better handling" your talking about the "lighter" z28. You either make it lighter by deleting things or adding expensive materials.....
Very few people now a days want a car they have to manually roll up windows or can't adjust their seat except forward or back....that leaves using expensive materials such as carbon fiber for the panels ect....IMO a Z/28 HAS to have more HP...can you imagine a salesman trying to pitch 2 cars one significantly more than the other because it is 200 lbs lighter?

I'm sure thats what Lutz will advertise too

$20k over the V-6 CTS is right...probably be the same w/the Camaro putting it at $43-46 right with the GT500.....are you spending $20k to make your V6 faster or 7k to make the 2SS V-8 go faster?

Once again most of these parts will be off the shelf for the z28...where all the "lightweight" parts will be exclusive...Which makes more sense when you have a limited amount of money (after filing bankruptcy), have pretty much completed the work on this car....and can charge the same price as an end result?

It doesn't have to be the fastest car on earth to sell....It's a damn good looking car & this will be the fastest model available...that's what will sell it. It's a done deal....End of story

Maybe at some point they will make a 1LE package for the "road track" guys

Edit: Don't forget the savings on the V-Series by spreading these costs with the Z

 

The next gen Camaro needs to be built on a much smaller platform. I would very much like to see it get some smaller engines as well. Smaller horsepower output in exchange for a much lighter car is always preferable. If we get a little V-8 as the top engine, doing 400hp, in a car that weighs 3400lbs and runs circles around the competition on road courses, everybody wins. The drag racing guys can always just add power. That car would likely come in quite a bit under the 45k that the new Z/28 will cost. If you want 500+hp, slap on a supercharger yourself with the money you have left over and drag your heart out.

I love the new Camaro. It's the best looking muscle car ever, IMHO. The V6 appeals to me a lot. The SS appeals as well. But for the next gen, let Chevy take the market leadership position...let them build a drastically lighter, smaller vehicle, with a bit less power, similarly awesome styling, and come to market with a modern sports car 2+2 that outhandles everything anybody else is offering. Let Ford play catch up with their mustang instead of the other way around. Changing the direction of the market segment by pulling a move like this might be the only thing that saves muscle cars in the long run.

 

I agree that going in a straight line fast is NOT this car's problem

-BUT-

I'm at least willing to wait until MY 2011 to see if Chevrolet has taken some of the handling criticisms to heart and has adjustments planned. I'm sure it still won't be a world-beater and obviously won't address the fundamental problem, the weight issue, but maybe something can be done?

Pedal placement does seem odd....

 

I recall reading that Lutz had to fight GM corporate rules in order to place the Solstice's pedals properly for heel and toe operation. Does anyone know if those rules still exist? Sounds to me like a product of the Audi "unintended acceleration" era.

I agree with everything except the sensors. I think they are necessary considering the poor visibility in the car.

Many of the car's handling problems are attributable to poor chassis tuning choices. Much can be done to make a heavy car handle well...just ask anyone who's driven a G8, STS-V, or BMW M3 or 5 series. The choice to choke off steering feedback and default to understeer has resulted in this car getting trounced in comparisons.

I hold out hope that the Z/28 will have a more neutral chassis demeanor and more steering feedback than the SS.

 

It's hard to say why some things were missed. I don't get the pedal placement either. I just get the feeling that the car was rushed a bit to production. We've heard that the Camaro just made it past the cutoff point when GM was putting cars on hold that were not far enough along to justify the cost. GM was looking at impending bankruptcy and I think they just had to get out what they had on this Camaro when they had it. The car needs some refinement and not to think that it won't happen but maybe old GM said lets get the car out and start making money on it and leave the refinement to the New GM.
Just look at some of the things that were not ready at the beginning of production, ABL across the dash, HUD, certain colors, the convert. I think GM's dire situation really put a strain on this car being fully developed by Q1 2009.

Looking at the G8/GXP, and CTS-V there is no doubt that GM should be able to get the steering feel more acceptable and work out the understeer. Who knows what can be done or why the pedals are in the place they are to begin with. I'm sure the car will improve upon refinement but to what level will it need be to please everyone.

 

No car can please everyone. If you try, you wind up with a car that pleases no one. The current Camaro pleases plenty of people, but there is room for improvement.

 

The real problem is, the people that claim to be the die-hard "Camaro enthusiasts" that "know what a Camaro should be" are completely out of touch with reality and don't understand how hot this car is and the general public doesn't care about your teary-eyed nostalgic memory of the 1968 Z28.

Does every other car community have this many know-it-alls in it?

 

Wow. You're a bitter little man.

 

Please do enlighten me, since you know so much about everything. I thought you are above being Or are you just a run of the mill hypocrite that dominates our current society?

 

So they should just build any old crap and as long as the morons in the general public think it's "hot", who cares?!?!?

Why build a Camaro at all then?

Tell me why giving a sh*t about making the Camaro a better car, a better Camaro makes us "out of touch with reality"?? Or is that all you can come up with?

Sounds like you're willing to accept that they should make it "just good enough"....as long as it's "hot"....

 

Like I said you just don't get it. Nobody cares what a couple of 1968 Z28 lovers and a blatant Ford fan want from the new Camaro. Just admit the car is not for you and move on.

 

Oh, don't you worry, I'll enlighten you if you are even enlightenable...

Your statement: ...pretty much tells me all I need to know. "The real problem" with the car, in your eyes, is that people like me, Doug, Gloria, Z28Wilson, Chewbacca, etc, etc. etc., have something to say. We shouldn't say anything - right? Then and only then, all will be perfect in your little world. And of course, then and only then will this Camaro have no problems.

See, you are unable to argue your position on it's merits. Nope, if you can't bounce around this site, personally attacking people not in lock step with you, you just simply are unable to communicate.

I'm sure you're probably a nice guy in the real world, but on the internet you come off as not so nice...