NEWS: GM Reportedly Calls "Game On" For Supercharged 550HP Camaro Z/28
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,123
From: Melbourne, Australia
Why does the G8's steering feel great, and the Camaro's steering feels artificial and sometimes completely numb. And why does the Mustang's steering feel better than both of them? Can you fix that?
Why does the G8 drive like it's lighter than it actually is, and the Camaro drives like it's heavier than it actually is? Can you fix that?
And if people like me weren't "ranting" about it would anyone even try to fix that?
Why does the G8 drive like it's lighter than it actually is, and the Camaro drives like it's heavier than it actually is? Can you fix that?
And if people like me weren't "ranting" about it would anyone even try to fix that?
This is what you wrote some time back in regards to the G8...
Originally Posted by Z284ever View Post
Well, let me ask you this, if you can answer. I recently drove a G8 GT with the 19" wheel sport package. Nice car. But I could feel every last ounce of it's two tons whenever I would steer, brake or accelerate. And that's okay for what the G8 is. But, unless the Camaro has a completely different dynamic feel, (and why would it?), for me it'll be a failure as a "ponycar".
So is the sportiest G8 available, a good indicator of what the Camaro feels like?
Well, let me ask you this, if you can answer. I recently drove a G8 GT with the 19" wheel sport package. Nice car. But I could feel every last ounce of it's two tons whenever I would steer, brake or accelerate. And that's okay for what the G8 is. But, unless the Camaro has a completely different dynamic feel, (and why would it?), for me it'll be a failure as a "ponycar".
So is the sportiest G8 available, a good indicator of what the Camaro feels like?
Overall though, this is a really nice package. Is it big? Yes. Does it feel heavy? Yes. Do you have the best visibility in the world? No.
I think Geoff Chadwick posted here afew days ago that he thought the G8 GT felt more nimble than the Camaro. I didn't really get that impression. I thought the Camaro I drove was quite abit better than the G8 - but if you've driven a G8, you get the jist of what Camaro's chassis dynamics feel like.
I think Geoff Chadwick posted here afew days ago that he thought the G8 GT felt more nimble than the Camaro. I didn't really get that impression. I thought the Camaro I drove was quite abit better than the G8 - but if you've driven a G8, you get the jist of what Camaro's chassis dynamics feel like.
You're basically contradicting yourself.
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Joined: Nov 1998
Posts: 3,252
From: Knoxville, TN
I can answer that one for you, Fbodfather.
There isn't another person who has hijacked every thread with his own personal agendas as Z284ever, not even Buickman.
I still remember all of Z284ever's gripes of the past... arguing the Camaro SS should have been a 2.0L turbo from the outset, presumably to comply with his personal maximum weight mandates for the car.
Although I offered some constructive input in this thread, Z284ever still hasn't answered the question of why he is unwilling to buy a V6 Camaro, which weighs in at a not unreasonable 3700lbs (100lbs below his personal 3600 lb target), and why he is unwilling to invest in minor suspension changes to make the Camaro the fun car he believes it ought to be? Camber, caster, toe, ride height, dampers and springs... the possibilities are endless to improve steering, ride and handling.
Come to think of it, Z284ever still hasn't bought a Mustang like he said he was going to. Unlike Camaro, the Mustang meets his weight targets 3600lb. So what's stopping you, Z284ever? Given you say you have the $$$ to spend, I can't think of any reason why you don't already have the pony car of your dreams.
There isn't another person who has hijacked every thread with his own personal agendas as Z284ever, not even Buickman.
I still remember all of Z284ever's gripes of the past... arguing the Camaro SS should have been a 2.0L turbo from the outset, presumably to comply with his personal maximum weight mandates for the car.
Although I offered some constructive input in this thread, Z284ever still hasn't answered the question of why he is unwilling to buy a V6 Camaro, which weighs in at a not unreasonable 3700lbs (100lbs below his personal 3600 lb target), and why he is unwilling to invest in minor suspension changes to make the Camaro the fun car he believes it ought to be? Camber, caster, toe, ride height, dampers and springs... the possibilities are endless to improve steering, ride and handling.
Come to think of it, Z284ever still hasn't bought a Mustang like he said he was going to. Unlike Camaro, the Mustang meets his weight targets 3600lb. So what's stopping you, Z284ever? Given you say you have the $$$ to spend, I can't think of any reason why you don't already have the pony car of your dreams.
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Joined: Nov 1998
Posts: 3,252
From: Knoxville, TN
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
You know, I could swear you pulled those comments straight out of Jalopnik, but that's OK, let's discuss it some more...
This is what you wrote some time back in regards to the G8...
This is what you wrote a couple of weeks back about the Camaro...
Now you say that the Camaro has serious shortcomings compared to the G8 but the other week you said you felt the Camaro was a bit better than the G8?
You're basically contradicting yourself.
This is what you wrote some time back in regards to the G8...
This is what you wrote a couple of weeks back about the Camaro...
Now you say that the Camaro has serious shortcomings compared to the G8 but the other week you said you felt the Camaro was a bit better than the G8?
You're basically contradicting yourself.
Wow Dude, considering it looks like you've spent about three hours searching over my old posts, I'm glad you live on the other side of the planet - because quite frankly, that's alittle freaky.
I hope you didn't have to miss the choosing the best floormat seminar at your Toyota Car Club meeting. 
First off, those G8 comments have got to be over a year old, way before the Camaro was even in production. And Geoff and I had a chance to compare notes on our drives, clarifying to me what he meant, and I agree with him. The SS is faster than the G8, (after all it's smaller,lighter, 65 more hp and manual trans). But I DO agree with Geoff that the G8 communicates with the driver better than the Camaro. I also agree that the G8 drives "smaller" than the Camaro. They're close, but if I had to pick one, it'd be the G8. And back to Scott - why?
BTW, sorry to drag you into this Geoff...
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 138
From: Virginia
I went to my Chevy dealer today. He said they haven't received any official word yet. He did commit he would sell it to me MSRP without a markup. I am excited about the Z28. It will be pure adrenalin.
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
I skimmed the first half dozen pages of this thread, and although I don't have the time or patience to read every post on these 17 pages through, there's enough recurring themes to post my view on.
First:
I find it extremely ironic that some of the very same people who demanded mega-high horsepower and independent rear suspension are also the same ones who seem to be complaining the loudest about the projected weight of the upcoming Z28. For as long as I can remember, those very same people professed adamantly that IRS and high horsepower didn't add weight. These same guys said that the only reason a car like Camaro was heavy is because engineers were lazy (the exact words were roughly "taking the easy way out", which means the same thing).
Now, we have a pending 550 horsepower Camaro weighing in at 4100 pounds, and the outrage from these very same people are drowing out the logic and the past when many people (not just myself, but those who actually work on things like this) were warning that there was no silver bullet, no magic metal, no fairy dust known to mortals to create a car that they were demanding that also cost a reasonable price that wasn't going to be pretty heavy. Low and behold, all those things demanded came or are coming true. And guess what? It's carrying quite a bit of weight....... wow.... what a surprize!
Second:
It's hard top believe that anyone is so cynical that they ignore just about every shred of evidence, and doubt the upcoming Z28's abilities. "Well... just because a 2-plus-ton Cadillac set a new record of all production sedans running around Nurbringing, doesn't mean the Camaro Z28 will do as good"
Guys... are you frigging kidding me?!! You are seeing what GM did with a luxury sedan based on a chassis that had it's engineering beginings over 13 years ago. It's nothing more than a sour attitude to think that a 2 door coupe on a more purpose built chassis with improved handling geometry (and front wheels closer to the nose... quicker response) isn't going to perform at-a-minimum equally as good as a CTSv. But almost certainly... BETTER
Third:
The point was made that the Z28 originally started as a lightweight track car. Only problems are
1) 1969 Camaro Z28s had a curb weight of over 3500 pounds. Convertibles weighed in at least at 3700 pounds. Z28s were no featherweight Miatas of their day, and...
2) the point of the fact that Z28 hasn't been a track car in 41 years should be well taken.
While that 2nd point should be well taken, dismissing this upcoming Z28's track abilities is pretty silly. GM has already shown with the CTSv that they CAN make anything handle with the best on the planet (which coincidently weighs MORE than a CTSv). Also, much of the current Camaro SS' disadvantage to the Mustang GT Track Pack is due to understeer and steering feel. A better recalabration of the steering, different bushings and front spring rates, and finally, REAL tires up front (Mustang carries bigger wider tires than the Camaro, yet weighs 300 pounds less!) will likely eliminate the disadvantage and will put it in competition with the GT500.
Fourth (and final) point:
If you don't like it, don't buy it.
In the real world, there are compromises. High horsepower equals weight. High performance equals weight. Add more horsepower or more handling or more stopping power, and it's going to weigh more. The upcoming Z28 is also likely to carry a Shelby GT500-like price too. Anyone honestly thinking the car will cost under $40 grand doesn't have a grip on reality. (Reality check: A Camaro SS starts at just under $33K). A supercharged, super performing, (and also...in typical fashion for cars like this... super loaded with minimal-to-no-options) superCamaro is going to run over 40K, and possibly right around the GT500s $48 large.
GM's gameplan calls for selling roughly half as many Z28s as Ford sells GT500s, so I doubt GM will have any trouble selling the one you would have bought.
Now that I've said all that, moving on to the real issue here, and I mentioned this in a thread a long time ago:
The horsepower race has gone WAAAAAY too far!!
Why in Gods name do we need a 550-frigging-horsepower automobile outside of a 2 passenger sports car??! At that level of relatively affordable horsepower, everything reaches past the point of diminishing returns.
The Camaro's 304 horsepower V6 is a fantastic engine. It's extremely powerful, it gets great fuel economy... and it would be a beast in a car that's a RWD version of the Chevrolet Cobalt. The whole package weighs less, so to get the same level of performance as the current Camaro SS you would need nothing more than that engine. Smaller size and less weight means smaller iron brakes can do the same job. That 304 horsepower requires a lighter duty drivetrain. Although returning to a live axle would be the best move, if you must have IRS, then return to the relatively lower priced and lower weight trailing arm type of rear suspension that was on the last GTO. The end result would be a small 4 passenger coupe that would have almost the same interior space as the current Camaro SS, at least the same performance as the Camaro SS, much better fuel economy as the Camaro SS, be a tossable size, and need less beefy (and heavier) parts to do all this.
If you want a mega horsepowered V8 engined supercar, then the upcoming Camaro is the best you're going to get. It's as light as it can be, and it has everything you're asking, so stop complaining.
Now, when you're ready to talk about cutting horsepower and vehicle size, are willing to give up V8 engines and sophisticated and complex (and heavy) suspensions, then we can start SERIOUSLY talking about rwd performance coupes weighing 3500 pounds or less.
Until you're willing to make those sacrifices, all that complaining about weight is nothing more than......
First:
I find it extremely ironic that some of the very same people who demanded mega-high horsepower and independent rear suspension are also the same ones who seem to be complaining the loudest about the projected weight of the upcoming Z28. For as long as I can remember, those very same people professed adamantly that IRS and high horsepower didn't add weight. These same guys said that the only reason a car like Camaro was heavy is because engineers were lazy (the exact words were roughly "taking the easy way out", which means the same thing).
Now, we have a pending 550 horsepower Camaro weighing in at 4100 pounds, and the outrage from these very same people are drowing out the logic and the past when many people (not just myself, but those who actually work on things like this) were warning that there was no silver bullet, no magic metal, no fairy dust known to mortals to create a car that they were demanding that also cost a reasonable price that wasn't going to be pretty heavy. Low and behold, all those things demanded came or are coming true. And guess what? It's carrying quite a bit of weight....... wow.... what a surprize!
Second:
It's hard top believe that anyone is so cynical that they ignore just about every shred of evidence, and doubt the upcoming Z28's abilities. "Well... just because a 2-plus-ton Cadillac set a new record of all production sedans running around Nurbringing, doesn't mean the Camaro Z28 will do as good"
Guys... are you frigging kidding me?!! You are seeing what GM did with a luxury sedan based on a chassis that had it's engineering beginings over 13 years ago. It's nothing more than a sour attitude to think that a 2 door coupe on a more purpose built chassis with improved handling geometry (and front wheels closer to the nose... quicker response) isn't going to perform at-a-minimum equally as good as a CTSv. But almost certainly... BETTER
Third:
The point was made that the Z28 originally started as a lightweight track car. Only problems are
1) 1969 Camaro Z28s had a curb weight of over 3500 pounds. Convertibles weighed in at least at 3700 pounds. Z28s were no featherweight Miatas of their day, and...
2) the point of the fact that Z28 hasn't been a track car in 41 years should be well taken.
While that 2nd point should be well taken, dismissing this upcoming Z28's track abilities is pretty silly. GM has already shown with the CTSv that they CAN make anything handle with the best on the planet (which coincidently weighs MORE than a CTSv). Also, much of the current Camaro SS' disadvantage to the Mustang GT Track Pack is due to understeer and steering feel. A better recalabration of the steering, different bushings and front spring rates, and finally, REAL tires up front (Mustang carries bigger wider tires than the Camaro, yet weighs 300 pounds less!) will likely eliminate the disadvantage and will put it in competition with the GT500.
Fourth (and final) point:
If you don't like it, don't buy it.
In the real world, there are compromises. High horsepower equals weight. High performance equals weight. Add more horsepower or more handling or more stopping power, and it's going to weigh more. The upcoming Z28 is also likely to carry a Shelby GT500-like price too. Anyone honestly thinking the car will cost under $40 grand doesn't have a grip on reality. (Reality check: A Camaro SS starts at just under $33K). A supercharged, super performing, (and also...in typical fashion for cars like this... super loaded with minimal-to-no-options) superCamaro is going to run over 40K, and possibly right around the GT500s $48 large.
GM's gameplan calls for selling roughly half as many Z28s as Ford sells GT500s, so I doubt GM will have any trouble selling the one you would have bought.
Now that I've said all that, moving on to the real issue here, and I mentioned this in a thread a long time ago:
The horsepower race has gone WAAAAAY too far!!
Why in Gods name do we need a 550-frigging-horsepower automobile outside of a 2 passenger sports car??! At that level of relatively affordable horsepower, everything reaches past the point of diminishing returns.
The Camaro's 304 horsepower V6 is a fantastic engine. It's extremely powerful, it gets great fuel economy... and it would be a beast in a car that's a RWD version of the Chevrolet Cobalt. The whole package weighs less, so to get the same level of performance as the current Camaro SS you would need nothing more than that engine. Smaller size and less weight means smaller iron brakes can do the same job. That 304 horsepower requires a lighter duty drivetrain. Although returning to a live axle would be the best move, if you must have IRS, then return to the relatively lower priced and lower weight trailing arm type of rear suspension that was on the last GTO. The end result would be a small 4 passenger coupe that would have almost the same interior space as the current Camaro SS, at least the same performance as the Camaro SS, much better fuel economy as the Camaro SS, be a tossable size, and need less beefy (and heavier) parts to do all this.
If you want a mega horsepowered V8 engined supercar, then the upcoming Camaro is the best you're going to get. It's as light as it can be, and it has everything you're asking, so stop complaining.
Now, when you're ready to talk about cutting horsepower and vehicle size, are willing to give up V8 engines and sophisticated and complex (and heavy) suspensions, then we can start SERIOUSLY talking about rwd performance coupes weighing 3500 pounds or less.
Until you're willing to make those sacrifices, all that complaining about weight is nothing more than......
Last edited by guionM; Sep 26, 2009 at 08:52 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,123
From: Melbourne, Australia
Wow Dude, considering it looks like you've spent about three hours searching over my old posts, I'm glad you live on the other side of the planet - because quite frankly, that's alittle freaky. I hope you didn't have to miss the choosing the best floormat seminar at your Toyota Car Club meeting.
First off, those G8 comments have got to be over a year old, way before the Camaro was even in production. And Geoff and I had a chance to compare notes on our drives, clarifying to me what he meant, and I agree with him. The SS is faster than the G8, (after all it's smaller,lighter, 65 more hp and manual trans). But I DO agree with Geoff that the G8 communicates with the driver better than the Camaro. I also agree that the G8 drives "smaller" than the Camaro. They're close, but if I had to pick one, it'd be the G8. And back to Scott - why?
BTW, sorry to drag you into this Geoff...
I hope you didn't have to miss the choosing the best floormat seminar at your Toyota Car Club meeting. First off, those G8 comments have got to be over a year old, way before the Camaro was even in production. And Geoff and I had a chance to compare notes on our drives, clarifying to me what he meant, and I agree with him. The SS is faster than the G8, (after all it's smaller,lighter, 65 more hp and manual trans). But I DO agree with Geoff that the G8 communicates with the driver better than the Camaro. I also agree that the G8 drives "smaller" than the Camaro. They're close, but if I had to pick one, it'd be the G8. And back to Scott - why?
BTW, sorry to drag you into this Geoff...
You basically don't know what you're saying. You don't know anything about what makes a fun car. You've contradicted your own thoughts many times and back-pedalled to escape scrutiny. You should just stick to being a sales representative for Weight Watchers as you would make more sense there.
Go buy that Mustang and leave the enthusiastic performance car fans the opportunity to enjoy some good news for a change.
It seems the ones who complain the least on this board are the ones who actually own a Camaro. The rest are just annoying distractions.
/rant off
Last edited by SSbaby; Sep 26, 2009 at 09:04 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 37
From: Woodstock, GA
I can't wait for the Z28.
Music to my ears when I heard it was back on. I will be ready to buy a new car once it finally hits the streets, and would certainly consider buying this car.
Unlike Z284ever, I won't be taking mine on the road course. I like straight line performance. So far, this car sounds like everything I would ever want!
WAY TO GO GM!
Music to my ears when I heard it was back on. I will be ready to buy a new car once it finally hits the streets, and would certainly consider buying this car.
Unlike Z284ever, I won't be taking mine on the road course. I like straight line performance. So far, this car sounds like everything I would ever want!
WAY TO GO GM!
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,123
From: Melbourne, Australia
There will always be a demand for cars that develop lots of power, no matter if that power is considered today to be environmentally incorrect. Why do customers blow their V8s when the engines are powerful enough? Because they can! 
That said, the Z/28 with a blower will offer a more driveable, more reliable and more desirable factory performance option compared to the guy who opts to go the aftermarket alternative for performance enhancements.
Clearly, there will always be demand for 'extreme' performance.
That said, the Z/28 with a blower will offer a more driveable, more reliable and more desirable factory performance option compared to the guy who opts to go the aftermarket alternative for performance enhancements.
Clearly, there will always be demand for 'extreme' performance.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 1998
Posts: 3,252
From: Knoxville, TN
I guess I'll get slapped around for using a certain word in this sentence....but....I wonder what the 2011 GT500 will weigh compared to a potential 2011-ish Z28?
Assuming that they are both "the best they can do".
Should be an interesting comparison.
Assuming that they are both "the best they can do".
Should be an interesting comparison.
Prominent Member
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 2,282
First:
No-one I know of that has been a champion of a TRUE Z/28 asked for a heavy SC to power it…only the drag racers and wealthy collectors will have any interest in this car.
At least try to read enough to understand that we KNOW the car is heavy, no changing that now…..just tell me why, for the 14th time, GM chooses to build an even HEAVIER car…especially when they’re running on life support…. It seems they can’t understand it’s not 1969….isn’t it time to blaze their own path?
Second:
Well they certainly are getting lambasted by all the magazines and other reviews for poor handling and numb steering…on the SS model no less. My time behind the wheel confirms this. What would make one think that adding 200#+/- on the nose of the car will make it defy the laws of physics? I was devastated to read the Automobile article that had two race car drivers calling it a ‘pig that won’t turn’….
Third:
With what a 200# adult on board? The AMA and even Charlie’s ad he posted listed the weights at UNDER 3,300#....but don’t let facts get in the way….
Have you been asleep for the last 6 years? WTF does this comment do but IGNORE the constant posted desire of those of us who actually still love to drive a responsive car, to have the Z/28 return to it’s reason for being? A lighter weight version that is purpose built for handling. I think 426hp is sufficient and could even be slightly enhanced…and coupled with REAL engineering and handling, could be that very car that deserves the Z/28 moniker.
So we are to believe that, even though they blew it on the SS, somehow they are going to fix it with another 200#? Besides if it were truly that easy to just “adjust & recalibrate” things, they WTF haven’t they done it with the SS?? Doesn’t it disappoint and p*ss you off that the SS is getting slammed in every comparison to the Mustang?
Fourth (and final) point:
No worries there….I won’t waste a dollar on this mistake and waste of revenue.
Great attitude for an bankrupt, tax dollar supported, corporation…. ‘Let’s p*ss away valuable dollars on a limited production vehicle just so we can monkey-see-monkey-do what Ford does’….instead of getting the cars they already build right and perform better than them.
So maybe it’s time to concentrate on building a world class car…instead of a straight line bandit?
Hey, you’re the one defending this mistake, not me……take a side and stick with it…..
I find it extremely ironic that some of the very same people who demanded mega-high horsepower and independent rear suspension are also the same ones who seem to be complaining the loudest about the projected weight of the upcoming Z28.
Now, we have a pending 550 horsepower Camaro weighing in at 4100 pounds, and the outrage from these very same people are drowing out the logic and the past when many people (not just myself, but those who actually work on things like this) were warning that there was no silver bullet, no magic metal, no fairy dust known to mortals to create a car that they were demanding that also cost a reasonable price that wasn't going to be pretty heavy. Low and behold, all those things demanded came or are coming true. And guess what? It's carrying quite a bit of weight....... wow.... what a surprize!
Second:
It's hard top believe that anyone is so cynical that they ignore just about every shred of evidence, and doubt the upcoming Z28's abilities. "Well... just because a 2-plus-ton Cadillac set a new record of all production sedans running around Nurbringing, doesn't mean the Camaro Z28 will do as good"
Guys... are you frigging kidding me?!! You are seeing what GM did with a luxury sedan based on a chassis that had it's engineering beginings over 13 years ago. It's nothing more than a sour attitude to think that a 2 door coupe on a more purpose built chassis with improved handling geometry (and front wheels closer to the nose... quicker response) isn't going to perform at-a-minimum equally as good as a CTSv. But almost certainly... BETTER
Guys... are you frigging kidding me?!! You are seeing what GM did with a luxury sedan based on a chassis that had it's engineering beginings over 13 years ago. It's nothing more than a sour attitude to think that a 2 door coupe on a more purpose built chassis with improved handling geometry (and front wheels closer to the nose... quicker response) isn't going to perform at-a-minimum equally as good as a CTSv. But almost certainly... BETTER
Third:
The point was made that the Z28 originally started as a lightweight track car. Only problems are
1) 1969 Camaro Z28s had a curb weight of over 3500 pounds. Convertibles weighed in at least at 3700 pounds. Z28s were no featherweight Miatas of their day, and...
1) 1969 Camaro Z28s had a curb weight of over 3500 pounds. Convertibles weighed in at least at 3700 pounds. Z28s were no featherweight Miatas of their day, and...
2) the point of the fact that Z28 hasn't been a track car in 41 years should be well taken.
While that 2nd point should be well taken, dismissing this upcoming Z28's track abilities is pretty silly. GM has already shown with the CTSv that they CAN make anything handle with the best on the planet (which coincidently weighs MORE than a CTSv). Also, much of the current Camaro SS' disadvantage to the Mustang GT Track Pack is due to understeer and steering feel. A better recalabration of the steering, different bushings and front spring rates, and finally, REAL tires up front (Mustang carries bigger wider tires than the Camaro, yet weighs 300 pounds less!) will likely eliminate the disadvantage and will put it in competition with the GT500.
Fourth (and final) point:
If you don't like it, don't buy it.
In the real world, there are compromises. High horsepower equals weight. High performance equals weight. Add more horsepower or more handling or more stopping power, and it's going to weigh more. The upcoming Z28 is also likely to carry a Shelby GT500-like price too. Anyone honestly thinking the car will cost under $40 grand doesn't have a grip on reality. (Reality check: A Camaro SS starts at just under $33K). A supercharged, super performing, (and also...in typical fashion for cars like this... super loaded with minimal-to-no-options) superCamaro is going to run over 40K, and possibly right around the GT500s $48 large.
In the real world, there are compromises. High horsepower equals weight. High performance equals weight. Add more horsepower or more handling or more stopping power, and it's going to weigh more. The upcoming Z28 is also likely to carry a Shelby GT500-like price too. Anyone honestly thinking the car will cost under $40 grand doesn't have a grip on reality. (Reality check: A Camaro SS starts at just under $33K). A supercharged, super performing, (and also...in typical fashion for cars like this... super loaded with minimal-to-no-options) superCamaro is going to run over 40K, and possibly right around the GT500s $48 large.
GM's gameplan calls for selling roughly half as many Z28s as Ford sells GT500s, so I doubt GM will have any trouble selling the one you would have bought.
Now that I've said all that, moving on to the real issue here, and I mentioned this in a thread a long time ago:
The horsepower race has gone WAAAAAY too far!!
The horsepower race has gone WAAAAAY too far!!
Why in Gods name do we need a 550-frigging-horsepower automobile outside of a 2 passenger sports car??! At that level of relatively affordable horsepower, everything reaches past the point of diminishing returns. ………………
Now, when you're ready to talk about cutting horsepower and vehicle size, are willing to give up V8 engines and sophisticated and complex (and heavy) suspensions, then we can start SERIOUSLY talking about rwd performance coupes weighing 3500 pounds or less.
Until you're willing to make those sacrifices, all that complaining about weight is nothing more than......
Now, when you're ready to talk about cutting horsepower and vehicle size, are willing to give up V8 engines and sophisticated and complex (and heavy) suspensions, then we can start SERIOUSLY talking about rwd performance coupes weighing 3500 pounds or less.
Until you're willing to make those sacrifices, all that complaining about weight is nothing more than......
Last edited by Doug Harden; Sep 27, 2009 at 10:35 AM.