98z vs. 03 cobra
Registered User
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 969
From: St. Louis, MO
Originally posted by LeadSled1
I have the before and after dynos to prove it. The gains were with a lid and the MAC headers with offroad pipe. The cutout was not open due to noise restrictions when we did the dyno. 40hp was the peak gain. There was over 50 rwhp gained at points through the lower rpm range. Less than 10rwhp would be attributed to the lid. Don't get hung up on peak #s.
You're obviously missing the point. We're talking about gains on an '03 or newer cobra vs. gains on an ls1, lt-1, lt-4, whatever.
And no you are obviously missing the point. We are not talking about gains, we are talking about ET and trap speed. You could have brand X car with 750rwhp and if it only runs mid 12s @ 110mph guess what? It only runs mid 12s. Take thay dyno and make a paper airplane out of it. Thats about all it is good for.
The fact of the matter is... for what the LT-1/LS-1 guys are shellling out for 25-50 hp, 75 hp at the very most, the cobra guys are getting for 1/2 of that, and even less in many situations, with higher gains to show for it.
Again, you are talking HP. Please, tell me what gains they made in the 1/4? Can you differentiate between ET and horsepower?
Did you own a Supra in a previous life?
$500 on a pulley swap for the new cobras will put you mid-high/mid 400's hp, $500 on an ls-1 won't get you close to that.
Please, show me one cobra anywhere that dynoed mid to high 400s (450-490rwhp) with only a pulley. This shows how much you do not know (although you do claim to know everything). I will give you the benifit of the doubt. Show me this magical pulley and I will state that you are the all knowing one. You will be my hero.
Here unto you I give the challenge. Show me oh wise one. Bless us with your magic pulley. Give us the knowledge!
I have the before and after dynos to prove it. The gains were with a lid and the MAC headers with offroad pipe. The cutout was not open due to noise restrictions when we did the dyno. 40hp was the peak gain. There was over 50 rwhp gained at points through the lower rpm range. Less than 10rwhp would be attributed to the lid. Don't get hung up on peak #s.
You're obviously missing the point. We're talking about gains on an '03 or newer cobra vs. gains on an ls1, lt-1, lt-4, whatever.
And no you are obviously missing the point. We are not talking about gains, we are talking about ET and trap speed. You could have brand X car with 750rwhp and if it only runs mid 12s @ 110mph guess what? It only runs mid 12s. Take thay dyno and make a paper airplane out of it. Thats about all it is good for.
The fact of the matter is... for what the LT-1/LS-1 guys are shellling out for 25-50 hp, 75 hp at the very most, the cobra guys are getting for 1/2 of that, and even less in many situations, with higher gains to show for it.
Again, you are talking HP. Please, tell me what gains they made in the 1/4? Can you differentiate between ET and horsepower?
Did you own a Supra in a previous life?
$500 on a pulley swap for the new cobras will put you mid-high/mid 400's hp, $500 on an ls-1 won't get you close to that.
Please, show me one cobra anywhere that dynoed mid to high 400s (450-490rwhp) with only a pulley. This shows how much you do not know (although you do claim to know everything). I will give you the benifit of the doubt. Show me this magical pulley and I will state that you are the all knowing one. You will be my hero.
Here unto you I give the challenge. Show me oh wise one. Bless us with your magic pulley. Give us the knowledge!
And as far as being a troll? LOL That's funny... half the people on here calling people nerds, telling them to get off the internet have well over 1000 posts.
I can assure you I've torn apart more engines, built more big-bores, and tuned more cars than you would ever get the opportunity to drool at. I come on here to share my opinion, just like EVERYONE else. Perhaps you and your elitist message board posse should consider that and spread your silly bullsh*t somewhere else---- maybe on a honda message board. Your ricer math should fit right in over there.
Last edited by BirchMan98z; Mar 22, 2004 at 07:41 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 969
From: St. Louis, MO
Here you go.
Cobras with pulleys, and catbacks putting down 430's-450's rwhp
http://dynoperformance.com/members.p...g+cobra&step=1
Dyno graphs to show. Enjoy the page, it's a good read. Plenty of "Magical" pulleys and "magical" cobras.
And FYI mid-mid/high means anywhere from 435-460 I'd say. Anything higher or lower than that is low/high.
This one is my favorite... it shows an 03 cobra going from basically stock, to 497rwhp...
It puts down 443.x with a pulley, a catback, and cold air induction, and a diablo tuner to keep the car from dying at idle.
http://dynoperformance.com/member_details.php?ID=984
Cobras with pulleys, and catbacks putting down 430's-450's rwhp
http://dynoperformance.com/members.p...g+cobra&step=1
Dyno graphs to show. Enjoy the page, it's a good read. Plenty of "Magical" pulleys and "magical" cobras.
And FYI mid-mid/high means anywhere from 435-460 I'd say. Anything higher or lower than that is low/high.
This one is my favorite... it shows an 03 cobra going from basically stock, to 497rwhp...
It puts down 443.x with a pulley, a catback, and cold air induction, and a diablo tuner to keep the car from dying at idle.
http://dynoperformance.com/member_details.php?ID=984
Last edited by BirchMan98z; Mar 22, 2004 at 07:38 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 969
From: St. Louis, MO
And furthermore, the pulleys aren't even CLOSE to $500. That's just a comparison number, unless you want the boost rings also.
The fact of the matter is for $80 you could have anywhere from 50-60 rwhp over stock, based on average gains people have been getting. There are a couple different pulley options. 2.93diameter, or 2.81 diameter. 2.9x is good for 25-35hp at the wheels, 2.81 is good for 40-50 at the wheels. etc. etc. etc.
It's not "Magic" like your 40rwhp shorty headers... it's simple physics. Smaller pulley, faster spin, more boost, more power--- at minimal cost.
The fact of the matter is for $80 you could have anywhere from 50-60 rwhp over stock, based on average gains people have been getting. There are a couple different pulley options. 2.93diameter, or 2.81 diameter. 2.9x is good for 25-35hp at the wheels, 2.81 is good for 40-50 at the wheels. etc. etc. etc.
It's not "Magic" like your 40rwhp shorty headers... it's simple physics. Smaller pulley, faster spin, more boost, more power--- at minimal cost.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 1,547
From: Panhandle of West Virginia
Originally posted by L98guy
Hey Scott, things are going well for me. Robert and Marty (97ChameleonTA) both moved to Tallahase (sp?). Robert got remarried recently. The wife and I had another child on September 2nd and work is going well. Obviously I need to get a life though.
I had two AOD 5.0s (91LX & 93 coupe) recently and a 97 Cobra. I now have a 01 WS6 I picked up after Thanksgiving. Give me an update on your situation. I'll try to get Robert to post up here tomorrow.
Jess
Hey Scott, things are going well for me. Robert and Marty (97ChameleonTA) both moved to Tallahase (sp?). Robert got remarried recently. The wife and I had another child on September 2nd and work is going well. Obviously I need to get a life though.
I had two AOD 5.0s (91LX & 93 coupe) recently and a 97 Cobra. I now have a 01 WS6 I picked up after Thanksgiving. Give me an update on your situation. I'll try to get Robert to post up here tomorrow.Jess
Registered User
Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 1,547
From: Panhandle of West Virginia
Originally posted by BirchMan98z
You picked up over a second and a half, running stock tires, with $852---Naturally Aspirated? Have to see that to believe it...
12.20's on $852 with stock tires is incredible---without the juice----or nittos.
You picked up over a second and a half, running stock tires, with $852---Naturally Aspirated? Have to see that to believe it...
12.20's on $852 with stock tires is incredible---without the juice----or nittos.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 1,547
From: Panhandle of West Virginia
Originally posted by BackinBlack
Jesse..
You are fighting with BIRCHMAN dude..
you should know better than that. This is the same moron who spent thousands and thousands of dollars getting his broke *** **** fixed after he fragged it, then claimed all the money spent was "mods"
He isn't fast, but runs down anyone who is.. My STOCK LT1 would smoke him so badly that it would make his own mother cry.. yet he will still go on about how mid to low 12's on a Stock LT1 are impossible..
Birch is just a troll who never left, you KNOW that. Don't let the boy-child get you angry. It's people like Birchman that make F-Body owners look like idiots.
And Birchman? I gained 40RWHP with grot long tubes.. so did a friend of mine.. go ahead and call bs. I can also pull my front wheels on 297RWHP.. then again 12.2 on 300RWHP is porbably impossibel too eh?
MUWAHHAHAHA I love bolt on kings like this who THINK they know all there is to know because they read websites all freaking day. How about you turn off the Internet.. grab a wrench and go learn something about your car on your own. You may learn something.. but probably not.. I remember seeing the repair bill you posted.. you would be challeneged just doing an oil change.
And the whole stupid Ford vs Chevy fight is just that.. STUPID. You take a fast Ford guy and give him a GM.. the GM will be fast too. Take a fast GM guy and put him in a Ford and the ford will be fast. It ISNT the car, it ISNT the engine, or the mods.. it's the owner and how serious he takes his car. I know far more 13 second F-Bodies than I know 10 second ones.. same can be said for Fords. But look at leadsled.. fast *** nearly stock LS1.. then he gets a Mustang and it's fast as hell too! It's the OWNER..
Heya Scott.. peace.
Jesse..
You are fighting with BIRCHMAN dude..
you should know better than that. This is the same moron who spent thousands and thousands of dollars getting his broke *** **** fixed after he fragged it, then claimed all the money spent was "mods"
He isn't fast, but runs down anyone who is.. My STOCK LT1 would smoke him so badly that it would make his own mother cry.. yet he will still go on about how mid to low 12's on a Stock LT1 are impossible..
Birch is just a troll who never left, you KNOW that. Don't let the boy-child get you angry. It's people like Birchman that make F-Body owners look like idiots.
And Birchman? I gained 40RWHP with grot long tubes.. so did a friend of mine.. go ahead and call bs. I can also pull my front wheels on 297RWHP.. then again 12.2 on 300RWHP is porbably impossibel too eh?
MUWAHHAHAHA I love bolt on kings like this who THINK they know all there is to know because they read websites all freaking day. How about you turn off the Internet.. grab a wrench and go learn something about your car on your own. You may learn something.. but probably not.. I remember seeing the repair bill you posted.. you would be challeneged just doing an oil change.
And the whole stupid Ford vs Chevy fight is just that.. STUPID. You take a fast Ford guy and give him a GM.. the GM will be fast too. Take a fast GM guy and put him in a Ford and the ford will be fast. It ISNT the car, it ISNT the engine, or the mods.. it's the owner and how serious he takes his car. I know far more 13 second F-Bodies than I know 10 second ones.. same can be said for Fords. But look at leadsled.. fast *** nearly stock LS1.. then he gets a Mustang and it's fast as hell too! It's the OWNER..
Heya Scott.. peace.
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,130
From: Kentucky
Originally posted by BirchMan98z
$1500 isn't sh*t in the scheme of things...
Hell, a good exhaust system from headers back on an ls-1 can run over $2000 and we sure as hell won't put mid 400's hp at the wheels.
$1500 isn't sh*t in the scheme of things...
Hell, a good exhaust system from headers back on an ls-1 can run over $2000 and we sure as hell won't put mid 400's hp at the wheels.
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,130
From: Kentucky
Originally posted by yellavette
I'm sure you could find your answer by looking at the dyno charts. Peak hp numbers mean little. Maybe the Cobra makes 500 rwhp for only a window of 1k rpms, but what about before and after that window? The Ls1 car might make peak power for 2k rpms or more (I've never seen a dyno on one). Look at the torque band too. Where does it peak? How flat is it?
Here's a good example. My first supra made 435 rwhp off bottle (pump gas), my supercharged vette made 443 rwhp on pump gas. The Supra made peak power at 5k rpms and only held it from 5k to 6k. Torque peak was up there too (can't remember the #'s). My vette on the other hand made peak torque much lower (with an unbelievably flat band) and held it's peak hp for a broader range of rpm. The vette trapped at 122 wheras the Supra trapped at 117. Almost equal peak power, equal weight, different traps. It's all about the area under the curve.
Jason
I'm sure you could find your answer by looking at the dyno charts. Peak hp numbers mean little. Maybe the Cobra makes 500 rwhp for only a window of 1k rpms, but what about before and after that window? The Ls1 car might make peak power for 2k rpms or more (I've never seen a dyno on one). Look at the torque band too. Where does it peak? How flat is it?
Here's a good example. My first supra made 435 rwhp off bottle (pump gas), my supercharged vette made 443 rwhp on pump gas. The Supra made peak power at 5k rpms and only held it from 5k to 6k. Torque peak was up there too (can't remember the #'s). My vette on the other hand made peak torque much lower (with an unbelievably flat band) and held it's peak hp for a broader range of rpm. The vette trapped at 122 wheras the Supra trapped at 117. Almost equal peak power, equal weight, different traps. It's all about the area under the curve.
Jason
Last edited by robb4964; Mar 22, 2004 at 11:32 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,130
From: Kentucky
Originally posted by BackinBlack
.. I remember seeing the repair bill you posted.. you would be challeneged just doing an oil change.
And the whole stupid Ford vs Chevy fight is just that.. STUPID. You take a fast Ford guy and give him a GM.. the GM will be fast too. Take a fast GM guy and put him in a Ford and the ford will be fast. It ISNT the car, it ISNT the engine, or the mods.. it's the owner and how serious he takes his car. I know far more 13 second F-Bodies than I know 10 second ones.. same can be said for Fords. But look at leadsled.. fast *** nearly stock LS1.. then he gets a Mustang and it's fast as hell too! It's the OWNER..
Heya Scott.. peace.
.. I remember seeing the repair bill you posted.. you would be challeneged just doing an oil change.
And the whole stupid Ford vs Chevy fight is just that.. STUPID. You take a fast Ford guy and give him a GM.. the GM will be fast too. Take a fast GM guy and put him in a Ford and the ford will be fast. It ISNT the car, it ISNT the engine, or the mods.. it's the owner and how serious he takes his car. I know far more 13 second F-Bodies than I know 10 second ones.. same can be said for Fords. But look at leadsled.. fast *** nearly stock LS1.. then he gets a Mustang and it's fast as hell too! It's the OWNER..
Heya Scott.. peace.
Lets all just get along .
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 182
From: Earleville, MD
Originally posted by BirchMan98z
I can assure you I've torn apart more engines, built more big-bores, and tuned more cars than you would ever get the opportunity to drool at. I come on here to share my opinion, just like EVERYONE else. Perhaps you and your elitist message board posse should consider that and spread your silly bullsh*t somewhere else---- maybe on a honda message board. Your ricer math should fit right in over there.
I can assure you I've torn apart more engines, built more big-bores, and tuned more cars than you would ever get the opportunity to drool at. I come on here to share my opinion, just like EVERYONE else. Perhaps you and your elitist message board posse should consider that and spread your silly bullsh*t somewhere else---- maybe on a honda message board. Your ricer math should fit right in over there.
Please tell me how you can assure me of this if you have never met me. You have no idea who I am. For all you know I could be a engine rebuilder for Jasper engines for the past 20 years or I could be a 5 year old behind a keyboard. Its these claims of absolute truth which you have no way of proving that put you in these positions.
As for the Cobras you linked to not one of them is pulley only as you stated. Pullies are marked in bold.
Stock 360 rwhp
Stock 362 rwhp
stant 170 degree thermostat - k&n drop-in k&n air filter - removed airbox silencer - 372 rwhp
mac catback exhaust 3 inches - 380rwhp
magnaflow catback mufflers - k&n k&n filter - 387rwhp
k&n air charger - diablo predator - 397rwhp
Stock - 365rwhp
pro-m 95mm maf - s&b air filter - phd tb - 373rwhp
s&b air filter - diablo predator performance tune - phd tb - 379rwhp
magnaflow catback exhaust - steeda intake - 403rwhp
c&l 95mm maf - k&n 9inch filter - bassani catback - bassani mid-length headers - ngk spark plugs - bassani x pipe with cats - 410rwhp
c&l 95 mm mass air sensor - c&l cold air - diablo computer chip - diablo pullies - bassani x-pipe - 418rwhp
densecharger cold air - diablo predator flash - 385rwhp
billetflow 100mm idler - densecharger cold air - stock exhaust - diablo predator flash - reichard racing 2.75 upper pulley - 415rwhp
pulley boys 3.2 supercharger pulley - anderson air filter kit - magnaflow catback exhaust - diablosport predator - steeda triax shifter - 430rwhp
2.93lb pulley - magnaflow catback exhaust - steeda cold air induction - diablo delta chip - ignition solutions plasma booster - 439rwhp
2.93lb pulley - magnaflow catback exhaust - steeda cold air induction - diablo delta chip - ignition solutions plasma booster - jba shorty headers - magnaflow tru-x crossover pipe - 459rwhp
magnaflow 2 1/4 muffler - maco 2lb lower pully - KENNE BELL SUPERCHARGER - dr gas x-pipe - 477rwhp
Dyno graphs to show. Enjoy the page, it's a good read. Plenty of "Magical" pulleys and "magical" cobras.
And FYI mid-mid/high means anywhere from 435-460 I'd say. Anything higher or lower than that is low/high.
This one is my favorite... it shows an 03 cobra going from basically stock, to 497rwhp...
It puts down 443.x with a pulley, a catback, and cold air induction, and a diablo tuner to keep the car from dying at idle.
No it doesn't. First off you are reading the torque numbers. 439rwhp and 443 rwtq. You also forgot to mention the ignition system on it.
up to 460rwhp means high 400s?
460rwhp is still mid 400s.
If you take a mathmatical point of view and divide the range of 400 to 499 into three equal quarters to symbolize low, mid and high you get 400-433, 434-466 and 467-499. (I gave one extra HP to the low HP range because I did not want to account for 1/3rd HP in each range) High 400s does not even start until 467rwhp.
the middle of high 400s (mid-high) is around 483.
You still have yet to show the mythical Cobra with A PULLEY ONLY (I.E. no tune, no cold air, no ignition system, no MAF sensors, No exhaust, no Kennebell supercharger. Stick on a pulley and that is all)
As shown below, even with a cold air intake, a high boost 2.75 pulley, an idler to keep the belt on and a tune the car was at 415rwhp.
billetflow 100mm idler - densecharger cold air - stock exhaust - diablo predator flash - reichard racing 2.75 upper pulley - 415rwhp
Still waiting for a Cobra with a pulley only with 435+rwhp...........
To the rest of the Ford guys out there do not think that I am bashing on the Cobra. They are great cars and I am a former Cobra owner. Its just this guy is way off. (his rocker) Using a pulley only on a 03/04 Cobra even if it was theoretically possible would require tuning. In the 415rwhp example above the smallest pulley I have seen is a 2.75 which is being used. This enabled the car to gain some horsepower but the restriction in the stock exhaust is holding the car back. This why even with the other mods the car does not break the mid 400 range. You could use an overdrive crank pulley but you still will have issues. Spinning the blower faster does not always mean more HP.
A pulley only will not get the job done alone. It takes a balance of mods to meet the goal stated.
Rob, thanks for pointing out about the Pacesetters. I had been looking at them also this time around for the WS6 but I had no experience on what kind of gains they give. I just gave info about what I knew about.
Scott, thanks for the kind words.
Marty & Robert, I'll be seeing you guys in about 3 weeks hopefully.
Thanks,
Jess
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 133
From: Roanoke, VA
Originally posted by LeadSled1
Still waiting for a Cobra with a pulley only with 435+rwhp...........
Still waiting for a Cobra with a pulley only with 435+rwhp...........
