From what I've seen, nobody is picking on you, or making fun of you. All we're trying to do is trying to save you from some serious dyno number that's going on. This is a very large forum, full of many "been there, done that's". The statements and advice givin have been extremely realistic compared to the numbers you've been quoted. And that is ALL we are talking about here! Like you yourself mentioned, so long as it runs as good as the car you rode in, you'll be happy. I don't see why he couldn't duplicate that setup, so I don't see why you won't be happy. All we are simply saying is that you shouldn't get your hopes up for the 650 rwhp. Because, well, that probably isn't going to happen...

What kind of heads is he going to be using anyways? You said the ones on that other car were 5k dollars? There've been lots of numbers thrown around, even stating as much as 8 or 9k dollars for Jimlabs heads, which I highly doubt true... but still, 5k is pretty steep for a set of heads. So what in the world is he going to be using?

BTW. Yes, Kieth Black makes forged pistons... but like everything else, there's probably a reason you don't see them being used that often

Later
Chuck

 

T-tops (as long as firewall is stock) are still treated the same as coupes in NHRA..... 5-point roll bar from 11.99-10.00; full cage from 9.99 to 7.50. NHRA retracted the rule change that would have required T-tops to use the full cage to 10.00

 

sorry, i was unaware the rule had been retracted.
thanks fred.

jesse

 

My heads were $1,995 for the bare castings. At that time, AFR was not producing a reverse cooled 215cc RR head, so I paid a premium for the first pair. They are 23° heads, not 18°, not 15°, not SB2...

http://home.gci.net/~jimlab/images/H...d/P1020025.jpg
http://home.gci.net/~jimlab/images/H...d/P1020028.jpg

On top of that I have the following...
$1,400 in Manley Titanium 2.10/1.625 valves
$350 in Comp Cams Pacaloy springs
$250 in Titanium retainers and locks

The head work was done at B&B Performance...
$38 for cutting the spring pockets
$40 for complete assembly
$40 for installing the bronze guides
$195 for a competition valve job
$1,200 for race porting and flow bench testing with sleeves
$300 for port matching with my Hogan's intake

So all told, I've got about $5,800 in my heads, give or take, even with the exotic parts, and they flow 330+ cfm.

http://www.rx7club.com/forum/attachm...postid=2206681

I'm running a 260/267 @ 0.050" 112 LSA solid roller cam with 0.686" max lift at the valves. Here's the pudding everyone's talking about...

http://www.rx7club.com/forum/attachm...postid=2206653

Even with ignition break-up and prior to tuning, obviously it's a stout combination for a pump gas motor. There are very few streetable NA LT1 engines around that I know of that make more power, and yet in a 6-speed car, it will probably be capable of "only" 560-570 RWHP after tuning. Not 660, not 620... 560-570 tops. An LT1 making 600+ NA RWHP would require heads flowing in the 365+ cfm range, and a solid roller cam bigger than mine. Period.

I don't doubt you were shown an LT1 dyno sheet showing 660 or 620 RWHP. I do doubt that it didn't involve a nitrous bottle or forced induction, or that whoever showed it to you was honest about how it was obtained. The odds are slim that what you were shown was a legitimate NA pull. If it was, the car that put down those numbers probably looks like a jungle gym inside and only has one seat.

No one is picking on you, although it may seem that way. We're just trying to set your expectations more in line with reality. In our experience, what you're claiming is highly unlikely. We just don't want you to be disappointed when you don't end up with the numbers you're throwing around.

Realistically, a car with 450-475 RWHP would have felt like a beast compared to your own 320 RWHP, especially from the passenger's seat. Since you claim it's not a solid roller, that's far more likely what you experienced. As Chuck said, if all you want is your car to be just like what you rode in, you're not likely to be disappointed.

 

660 rwhp with a hyd roller...there's no way in hell.

I don't know how you plan to race it with only a 4pt cage and 660 rwhp.


I think someone is feeding you a bunch of bs here. Dyno sheets can be manipulated to say whatever you want, as can headflow sheets, etc.


Example: SB 2.2 (cream of the crop SBC heads) on nascar motors make around 700-800 flywheel horsepower. Thats with a gigantic cam, sure as hell not a hyd roller, an rpm limit that is 2000 rpm more than yours currently. SB 2.2 heads flow, I believe, almost 400 CFM on the intake side. As jimlab said, you'll be lucky to get 330 cfm out of a set of 23* heads.

 

i know most tracks wont let me race after i lay the right numbers with out a better cage. the cage is basically there for added safty. i want the car to look mostly stock, and i hate the way a 5pt looks with the bar behind the seats. does anyone have pics of a 5pt harness install on a 4pt cage?

anyways, it had to be over 5 even if the dyno sheet wasnt real as suggested. i took a ride in a red transam with an ls1. i dont remember the year. anyways, with headwork ray pulled a ~450 to the tires. yes another dyno. and i know that much a difference in feeling would not be obtained by 20-30 hp more than my car.

the 96 that has been in discussion put that one to shame as well.

anyways, again i want to see 520 in high alt, and 620 in sd. again if the dyno claims were bogus, (i really doubt it) id be happy so long as my car performs like the 96z.

i really do get where you all are coming from. there are many different ways to do things in motors, and a lot that not everybody knows. let time tell and the motor built to see what is up, and which side of the coin i land on. ****, if its as impossible is everyone is going on about, wouldnt it be bad *** if everything were on the up and up?

 

Well, I mean, it won't be, but you know, good luck

Still haven't said what heads you plan to use on this?

Later
Chuck

 

well if you hate the bar behind the seat your are not going to like the door bar that is what is the 5th bar not the cross bar that the belt goes too. Oh and the cross bar's are supoose to be weled in to be leagal.


Your best bet is to get a 5-6pt bar with swing out's that way you could remove the door bars if you can still drive it on the "street"

 

Thats the thing. You claim an outrageous amount of power from 23 degree castings and a hydraulic roller. The SBC has been around forever, these things aren't exactly an unexplainable mystery. many builders, with a budget probably 100 times the budget of this builder, have been experimenting and testing things to get the most power out of these. I highly doubt he has some amazing combination that will make 660rwhp na from a 383

I don't think you understand, mindgame got 18* heads on his motor and didnt get near what you are claiming. Is there a reason why he would go through all the trouble to convert the heads/intake and a solid roller if it could be done with HR and 23* heads? Hell no. Once again, nascar motors make 700 hp with SB2.2 heads at 8500-9000 RPM. They flow almost 400 cfm, your 23* heads will flow around 330 max.

Also, theres no way you'll see 520rwhp n/a at 5200 ft.

450 rwhp on an ls1 with heads and cam at 5200 ft? No way, unless the d/a was absolutely terrible. For a heads/cam 383 LT1, you can pretty much take away 100 hp coming up to elevation, that amount exponentially increases as you produce more power.

 

DrewHMS97SS
just curious, what rpm was he shifting this car at?
is he still using the stock computer?
what size injectors doe he use?
what kinda fuel system?

jesse

 

DrewHMS97SS
just curious, what rpm was he shifting this car at?
is he still using the stock computer?
what size injectors doe he use?
what kinda fuel system?

jesse

 

Well, I'm done. Drew apparently doesn't want to acknowledge the fact that everyone with any experience is saying it's next to impossible, or there must be something about Denver air that allows the laws of Physics to be violated, so there's nothing more that I can do.

However, please be kind enough to post your dyno sheet when your car is finished so that I (and others) can have the pleasure of saying "I told you so"...

 

you guys arent listening. i respect what you say. but i also must have trust in the person with my motor.

what im saying is i dont expect a miracle, which is what we are guessing at now.

i know most of us on the board hate dyno queens. so lets stop guessing and just wait to find out. i wont say 620 here, and for the rest of you i will retract 520, lets just see.

 

I've got an idea! Let's see who can predict it the closest!

Considering 383, 11/1 compression, ported LT4 heads, LT headers, good exhaust, hydraulic roller cam (I'll assume a large one for the benefit of the doubt - maybe 240+ / 250+ at .050"), and a 6 speed trans (again, benefit of the doubt).

I'm betting 480 rwhp if everything is perfect. Probably more like 430 rwhp in the real world, though.

Don't get me wrong, it would still be fast. Somewhere around the low 11's more than likely with that kind of power.

Mike

 

Few more questions unrelated to the 660.

Is your motor going to be an exact replica of his?

Still no updates on what exactly is going into this motor? Maybe since you say you are there every day helping him you could say, "hey mr. engine builder, what kind of motor am I getting and what parts are going to be on it," even if you dont understand what he is saying, at least record it for the rest of us, we are curious.

What kind of tranny is behind his/your car?

Just a lot of cool indepth details of this motor would be nice.

BTW, mixup my bad on Jimlab, got you confused with mindgame!?!