Sea level.

 

Of everything you people mentioned in this thread, you missed the BIGGEST advantage of the LT1 over the LS1....... the ability to do genI head conversions. Now some people think the LS1/6 heads are the best heads GM ever made so the LS1/6 is the end all/be all to GM small blocks. But if you're "in the know" about a special breed of GenI heads you'll know that there are heads MUCH better than the LS_ platform. Small-valve angled, splayed valve, or RR heads will make tremendous amounts of power with freakish power bands. Of course, some are a little pricey but the power they'll make is unreal. Look at Mindgame's 383 with GM 15* heads.... 568rwhp on pump gas and trapping close to 138mph in a full weight street car NA!!! Low 10s at that mph on street tires is smokin. Or Jim's 396 making 650 flywheel hp with a bad ignition breakup (opti related). Last i heard they were expecting 680 or more.

Personally i'm going SR 396 with a set of converted/ported Brodix 18X and EFI converted HV 1800 intake. The heads flow almost 320cfm right out of the box and with porting will head way over 350. These heads have a standard 23* valvetrain and standard SBC exhaust pattern, which makes them almost perfect for an LT1 (no offset or special parts needed). From what i gather, the heads go for about $2,200 assembled.... and CFM Performance will do reverse-cool conversions on genI heads for less than $500.

I'll stick with the LT1 due to the above advantage.... but opinions differ, not everyone is ready or patient enough to do this. With either engine and the knowledge of what is possilbe to do to each you can make stupid amounts of power. There's always a thousand or more ways to get from point A to point B. IMHO it's just that right now i see the LT1 having the ultimate advantage, all things considered. In the future when companies start making better castings of LS1 heads, the tables might turn. But i don't see any castings surpassing the SB2.2 and Splayed valve heads any time soon as these are the forefront of head technology being used (and those heads can be used on the LT1 also).

Sorry for the length, just one man's opinion.

 

Not everyone gets the chance to run at sea level, as a matter of fact the 12.5 I mentioned at sea level and the conditions of the day (90 degrees and 78%humidity) put me alot faster that a low 12.

 

The LS1/LS6 is BY FAR the best GM production head ever offered, probably THE best production small block head offered by any manufacturer, 270 CFM from the factory is nice. Power making capabilities per dollar cannot be matched on these heads. Heads cam automatic LS1's run 10's , takes a AFR headed 383 LT1 to run the same number. In the same weight car.

As far as the SB2 head, come on dude, thats BRAIN DAMAGE trying to run that on a LT1, headers, rockers, intake, pistons...all special items to make it work on a LT1, to my knowledge there are no SB2 headed LT1's, very few conventional small block headed LT1's. I am building one with Pro Action 235's...far from cheap.

As far as SB2 or splayed valve small block heads, priced any lately? Not to mention what it takes to make them work. Take LSx heads off, port them, bolt them back on, throw in a cam and some bolt ons=go fast.

WS sick:
Your car is down on power, bolt on Ls1's go faster



David

 

I'm talking production from any aspect, not just for production cars.... GMPP is part of GM and they make the heads i was referring to. Plus there is such a wide variety of heads from Pro Action, Dart, WP, etc with smaller valve angles and bigger intake ports so you're not limited to one degree. Have you seen the power guys are making with the genI series lately? Small blocks going upwards of 454cu in, heads with 12,13,14* valve angles, BIG intake ports (which the added displacement tames), etc are making HUGE power... and it's mainly because of the heads. And their abundance of parts makes them cheaper to build up than the LS_ series..... considering the awsome potential these heads offer. I realize what you're saying with that example of LT1 vs LS1, but the genII can have a LOT of carry over parts from the genI. It's the heads is where power is made in ANY engine and the genI has 'em (IMO moreso that the genIII).

It's not brain damage man, and don't take the SB2.2 comment so directly, that was just an illustration to what was possible. In fact there is a member on here with SB2.2s on an LT1. Darren-something... has the engine together and all... he posted pics of it in the car(94Z IIRC). Yes SB2.2s are going for about $4k a set used, but that's near the extreme of what anybody would do next to the Arao 4V. Look elsewhere if you don't want to spend that much or need heads that radical (see companies above). And if you're trying to make mega HP NA, the head conversion is the best bet for an LT1 and is very cost effective. I hear the max you can port LS_ heads is bewteen 220-230cc.... the genI smaller angled heads with MUCH bigger intake ports will surely make a good deal more power. CFM performance will do the reverse-cool conversion for around $400. And there are off-the-shelf pistons to use with the heads and readily available. Using a carbed intake that already fits the head you're using for EFI use isn't too terribly hard... there are companies out there than will hook you up with what you need. If you're going to be building an engine like this you're gonna need new fuel rails, injectors, etc anyway... so where's the hassle? Have all the conversions done, build up that bottom end (MUCH cheaper than LS_) , bolt the heads on, tune it and go. And with heads like the 18X you won't need many custom parts such as offset lifters and rockers.... if any at all.

Define fast..... 10s to one person is slow to someone running 9s or better. And not necessarily limiting the conversion to SB2 or splayed valve heads either. Depending on your route of making power, especially NA, the better heads will be well worth it. If you're talking forced induction, then you won't make much more power with an LS1 over an AFR headed LT1 because induction effects with forced induction are much different than NA or N2O. All that matters really is port volume, valve size, amount of boost, and block strength. And all pricing considered, the costs of an LS1 engine or entire car will probably outweigh the cost of the head conversion itself by a good bit. Take a look around, people are catching on to this..... i've talked to a few board members who have already done it and they're very happy with the results. Not trying to bash anything, both the LT1 and LS1 are great engines.... fact is the LT1 just has more options due to it's similar design to the genI SBC. It's starting to get more popular and i'm sure we'll see insane performance from the LT1 in the years to come. With either engine you can make insane power..... i'm merely stating that if you already have the LT1, keep it and work with it. The block is pretty much proven to over 1000hp.... how much more you need?

Hell, lately i've been thinking about abandoning both platforms and going genI altogether. Cheaper, more options, more power, and more practical after everything is said and done. And while we're talking about this.... the ol' saying, the more $$$ ya got, the faster you'll go applies.

peace

 

It just seems to be an issue of how far you want to go personally. Most of the Lt1 guys I know are more prone to do their own work and bust into the engine themsleves when alot of my ls1 friends aren't. I prefer to tear it apart and not worry about when the payment is due. Then again most of the power guru's (hotrods as I call them) I know just say go the old 1st gen motor style and avolid all this BullSHIZ. Why do we argue "facts" like we are on the honda forum?? My preference is the Lt1 because I can afford it and the new house and the Blazer and the truck and all the in-betweens! Take all the CFM #'s, pro's and cons and lets see who can make it to the next red light since that's what I see everyday instead of the track.

 

Since the original poster asked for reasons other then cost my opinion is:

LS1>LT1 for performance

LS1>LT1 gas mileage

LT1>LS1 for pure bad a$$ sounding. A cutout LT1 is definately meaner sounding then a cutout LS1.

Cost is a factor for most of us but then again sometimes you gotta spoil yourself. If I was a millionaire I would probably own an ENZO Ferarri. If I was very well to do I would probably own a viper or Z06. If I was moderately well to do I would likely own a newer C5. Since I fall into the next catagory of well off I have a LS1. If I made about 10k a year less I would likely own a LT1.

There is a lot about the LT1 I like but realistically the LS1 is a better platform to start with which is one reason it's more expensive. Plus it's getting to the point now where you can get a 98 for 10K or even less in some cases. Most people spend 20K + on a new car. Why not buy a LS1 for less then 15K, slowly do all the bolt-ons while you are making payments and then do the serious mods (heads/cam/N20) when it's paid off?

That's my plan anyway. But then again there is nothing wrong with doing the same thing with a LT1.

Sorry for rambling on, it's late and I'm drunk Lol.

 

One advantage the LT1 heads have is bolt pattern. The LS1 heads have less bolts and thinner material for the bolts to hold on to. This can lead to cylinder head flex/blown head gaskets. Granted, this is probably only a factor for boosted or high compression engines, but something to consider when comparing the limits of both engines.

All in all, I think the 2 are pretty comparable. Out of the box the LS1 has the advantage of course. Technology works out like that. You couldn't have had the LS1 without the LT1 or the LT1 without the TPI. One day soon GM will introduce the Gen4 engine and we will be having the same discussion between it and the LS1. But, bench racing and shop talk is another thing that makes this fun and intersting.

 

First off i would like to say the LS1 has been made out to be the next best thing since sliced bread, which is fine with me---cause i like being the underdog (or at least people thinking that) But the fact is GM just made the dam thing better, better design, better parts, better engineering the whole 9 yards. Yes it does perform better than the LT1, but like someone said earlier the gap narrows as the mods get closer, because in the end you run the same (or equivalent) heads, cam, intake.........

Put the LT4 package on an LT1 and then compare cause in my opinion GM should have made them all that way.

All i know is the LS1 is way to overdone....it makes me sad to see people dropping in LS1's into 60's and 70's cars......they weren't ment to be like that.

I love the LT1