You do realise to buy a set of MTI heads that flow close and a little over 300 cfm you have to pay 2700 plus exchange, not exactly half www.motorsporttech.com/c5_engine01.asp.

I have a close freind with an MTI package in his LS1 camaro and he knocked down only 380 rwhp and ran a 12.6 with a 2.0 60 foot. not exactly tearing the heart out of my 383 if you get my drift.
I spent less than 2000$ on the shortblock of my LT1 and I bought my AFRs(190s) for 1750$ plus shipping, did a little work on my heads (they flow inthe 275 cfm range @ .550 lift).


I already said the stock heads on an LT1 are crap , no arguement there. (in comparison)

Lets see the cam I am using was 208$ and I picked it up at my local chevy dealer, my buds MTI cam was 399$ plus shipping.
In summit and jegs the off the shelf LS1 cams are not a cam is a cam is a cam either, they cost 350$ to 400$ for an off the shelf cam.

MTI lists thier full heads and cam package (with headers and tuning) to make the power youre talking about at $4238 plus shipping , plus core on the heads. This gets you the stage 2 ported heads (required for their advertised 400rwhp) cam, springs, retainers,timingchain, and computer thats retuned.
(if you have them install it its 8 grand). You still havent bought the gaskets and bolts and the exhaust system that they used to get the 400 rwhp.



those LS1s running 9.50s are stroker motors as well.

 

What was the RWHP and ET numbers on your 383?

You can get 400 RWHP for alot less than MTI advertises

See here http://www.fbodymotorsports.com/engine_packages

You got off the subject of FEW 400 RWHP LS1 stock bottom end cars, damn near all of them on the MTI customer page make that and better.

You can have LS1 heads ported for $1000/$1500 exchange that will flow over310 CFM. AFR does not make a head that can touch that without some MAJOR portwork, then still may not reach it, look at a $2800 pair of heads to match the stock ported LS1/6 casting.

There are a few stock bottom end LS1's running mid 10 second 1/4 miles all motor, no LT1's to my knowledge. The bump spot to even get on the fastest LS1 bolt on list is 11.98.

Because your buddy cannot drive his car do not knock how it may run with a better driver. With 380 rwhp that car should go 12 teens easily, with the right setup and traction would go in the 11's. What MPH did his car run 114 or so?


Still stand that the LS1 dollar for dollar is a much better platform,if you spend the same money on both platforms the LS1 will make more power, although the performance gap closes a bit when you get into stroker motors with aftermarket LT1 heads as AFR. I am building a solid roller 383 trying to make the 500 RWHP all motor mark, it is far from cheap. I am not using AFR heads.



David

 

I think youre reading me all wrong. Let me step back a second and say that I believe the LS1 is an awesome car and can be made to run really well. I just think everyone shortchanges the LT1. Now that I got that out of the way.


I see alot of what you are saying, but I see nowhere that you can get a set of ported LS1 heads that flow over 300 cfm for 1500$ exchange!!! I looked through my sources (I counted 20) and th echeapest was a stage one for 1700 that flowed in the low 270s.

I'm not knocking my buddies car , I know that he cant drive, but from a float I can walk him like there is no tomorrow. He trapped in the 112 range (auto). I hjavent had my car to the track , but my old 93 could trap that with homeported heads and a cc305!! (it ran lower 12s as well).
The link you gave does have quite a bit cheaper prices than most I see. (i'll pass it on).

I'll get the guy for ya, but theres a guy here that bought the AFR 220s and cleaned up the port work himself at home (flowed 280s out of the box) and it flowed well over 300 cfm (okay so 8 to 12cfm).If you price 220s from Dallas Export Sales www.strokermotor.com you can pick up a set of 227 RR heads for 2400$ they flow even more than the 220s. and you can sell your stock heads for a couple hundred.

I agree in a few years I wont even have a pot to pee in on this subject because the prices will come more in line and it will be a completely moot point.

 

You gotta remember that the LS1s start out at a higher cost than the LT1s. So by the time you spend the same amount of money...the cars run about the same. Yes LS1s will make more peak power. But LT1s will make more low end, and are capable of making just as much peak power. There are a few LT1 stock bottom end guys well above 400 rwhp on here. There's guys w/ 350 rwhp LT1s running high 11s. I do agree, the LS1s are better engines for making peak power, but, you can't dog the LT1 cause it has a lot of potential as well. Hell, my car has a med. size cam in it and I'm running low 12s, w / stock suspension. Hoping to break the 11s next time out. Stock heads. Not bad I think.

Reverse cooling allows for higher Compression in the LT1. That's the only real advantage I see for the LT1 over the LS1. And some may think the iron block is an advantage as well, I'm not so sure on that yet. I'm undecided on the block material yet.

 

I really dont consider car price, because for example I was just looking at a 99 Formula that was in very GC for 8900$

 

Your buddies car is down on power or it was a very hot day, stock LS1 auto run in the 107/108 range, friends here with lid, converter and cutout run 12.30's @110.

The 227 requires offset lifters and offset shaft rockersif memory serves, add another $1200 to the price of the heads to run them.

Again what were the ET and HP numbers on your 383?


LS1's are reverse flow cooled to my knowledge.


David

 

the ones that were at SLP day in dallas last year were lucky to get into the 12s. most ls1 cars were running mid high 13s at less then 105. my friends bone stock 02 z06 went 12.40@115 w/ a 2.1 60ft. so it wasnt the weather. most stock ls1 f bodies around here arent all that fast. 8.80s 1/8 mile.

 

I havent had it to a dyno actually I dont plan on going unless I get a chance to with the club or something. I live a good distance from the nearest track , so I don't really get to go everyweekend. But when I had this car with a smaller cam (224/230 XE) it ran 12.5 at around 110 on each pass, I had horrible traction. It is much faster with this new cam and a half point more compression and some head work which was free because I did it.

By the way 109 in a stock LS1 would probably be at sea level and a standard. I have witbnessed stock LS1s myself run anywhere from 14.0s to 13.3s and none of them here ever reached 109 stock, add a lid and some piddly stuff and 109 I can see here with good air and a stick, but it is definately not the norm and you cant convince me otherwise so we'll drop that part of it. I didnt just fall off the potato wagon.

Yes the 227 rr require fancy stuff , but the 220s do not nor do the 210s and they can flow over 300 cfm (and are cheaper than the 227s too) I just threw the 227s out there to show that a head was available that flows like a gangbuster.

If you go back and read, my posts I'm not disputing that an LS1 can , run , can be made to run , can be made to run fast. My contention is that the LT1s mods are much cheaper and is no slouch when the heads and all are delved into, look at the thread on here today . two guys they mention are over 400 hp on the stock shortblcok , ported stock heads and a custom cam. Sound familiar? (one is even over 450 rwhp on the stock shortblock in an auto) http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...hreadid=232711

 

LS1's are NOT reverse flow cooled... only LTx's

 

What is reverse cooling?

 

The water that is cooled by the radiator and fans goes into the cylinder heads, and then go into the block. That is reverse cooled on an LT1.

An Ls1 is conventional, cooled water goes into the block then up through the heads.

By having the clooer water flowing into the heads first on an LT1, GM was able to safely run more compression without sacrificing reliabilty, but then they screwed up the whole reliabilty issue by going with the Optispark.

 

What the hell is Optispark?

 

That is true Anti, the Opti spark is much better than a mech rotor, yet everyone seems they would rather have the old style. Why? My car has 100k and it has never had an opti problem. It's much more accurate than the conventional style distributor, and like he said, it's more powerful.

 

I just ran my 01 WS6 a week ago and the trap was 109.46 stock. Not the norm but doable.

450RWHP has been done with just a cam and boltons with a LS1. 10s have been done with a cam and bolton LS1.

My 99 Z28 ran 12.2s @ 111+ mph with just 321 rwhp (intake mods, exhaust and a converter). ET is more a function of traction vs mph is more a function of hp.


As for heads that flow around 300 CFM for under $1500:

http://www.patriot-performance.com/LS1.htm

296 CFM for $1395 a pair and NO exchange. Sell your stock stuff to bring the cost down even more. ($200-$400)

 

If younote when I talked about my car I said I was traction limited. Heck theres guys here with stock long block plus cam in LT1s runnin hihg 11s, no new feat there.

Whats your elevation in Delaware?