Really tit for tat, LT1 car will be cheaper to insure(older), The money you save on a LT1 over a LS1 can go towards mods that will make you as fast as a stock LS1. Seen high 12's for a stock LS1 six speed. So to me really no advantage. As you go into heads cams etc the LS1 widens the gap, those 14* heads are the kicker. They make 400 RWHP with just a cam and bolt ons. So go figure, there are some making 500 RWHP stock bottom end heads and cam. Cant do that with a LT1.


David

 

There are heads out there that can be made to flow like LS1 ported heads, the cams are much cheaper right now, along with all the internal parts (cranks, rods , pistons). Price is the contributing factor for me , and know how, the LT1s bottom end is essentially a normal SBC. I have been messing with those for 20 years so I'm familiar with it.

 

Its like modding a 5.0, its an older car, lot cheaper, huge after market swamped with may used parts. They respond well to mods. The motors are cheap to build in comparison and you can make one run hard. Build a nice 383 on a 250 shot and go have some fun.

 

the graph from mti's 485hp ls1 h-c pkg

http://www.motorsporttech.com/images...c_dyno01sm.jpg

doesnt look like 500+rwhp to me.

 

now where did my glasses go?

 

Cost of car and cost of mods, other than that the LS1 is the better platform.

 

well, if we take cost out of the equation, the ferrari 575 m is a better platform.

 

Yeah, and if we follow it the other way the best car in the world is a Pinto with a junkyard big block and lots of spray.

LS1>LT1.

 

hell yeah! i wonder how many thousands of dollars said pinto could win off ls1 owners?

 

Here ya go
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132972

 

If cost were no matter, why do we even drive F-bodies, we should all drive one off gizmos that run on fart gas.

I dont know about you , but to pay well over 2500$ for a heads and cam package (entry level) is rediculous.

And when you get into the shortblock the price is staggering in difference. Just look at pistons and cranks!!! If you were thrifty you can build a 383 with 500 Flywheelhp for 3000$

on an LS1 you simply changed the heads and cam and are still scrounging for money to tune it, and replace the gaskets.

Sure you'll say that the heads and cam on a LS1 will match that 500 FWhp, thats top of the shelf best case scenario. The majority of Heads and cam LS1s are less than 450FWhp, and the 500 fwhp 383 is just getting started.

 

damn!

 

The run of the mill stock bottom end head /cam LS1 is 400-425 REAR WHEEL HORSE POWER, not flywheel horsepower, which is 480 to 500 flywheel horsepower.. LS1 will make 400 flywheel horsepower with minor bolt on's. There has been a 400 rear wheel horsepower LS1 with only a cam and bolt ons. The numbers I speak about are with ported stock LS1 casting heads and hydraulic cams. Two friends in town have stock bottom end LS1's with ported stock heads, hydraulic cams LS6 intake, both make around 430/440 RWHP. Cars like that are everywhere, a stock bottom end LT1 STRUGGLES to make 400 rear wheel horsepower, most are six speed cars, the ones that have achieved that number, very few auto LT1 stock bottom end cars have made that number. The heads on a LS1 are 14* valve angle and flow better stock than almost all ported stock LT1 castings. Spend a $1000 on portwork on a LS1 head and reach to 330 CFM mark, LT1 ported stock castings average about 270 CFM, AFR aftermarket heads will reach lower 300 CFM mark, will lighten the wallet about $3500 to get them that way. The 500 RWHP link above is about 580 flywheel horse power. In general there in a 50/75 flwheel horsepower gap between the two given the same mods.

When buying race type hardware, forged cranks, rods, solid roller cams the price difference is not that much. So its all in what you want. If I had to do it over again I would do a worn out 98 model LS1 car.

David

 

You must be getting some freaks , I would not call them run of the mill. Still what did it cost them? I look on the LS1 forum here and at LS1.com and they are very few heads and cam guys getting that. (unless they have a very large cam that by the way cost them twice what a cam for an LT1 was)

Do you realise there are guys with LT1s that at the top are getting 400+ rwhp on stock bottom ends?

The 383 I alluded to is a mere drop in the bucket to a 383 s potential. Lets see the LS1 with 425 rwhp match the torque below 4500 that a mild 383 would generate (and the heads and cam LS1 paid probably more for heads and cam package than what the run of the mill 383 will cost.)

After the after market gets in volved the advantage the LS1 had in airflow is diminished. look at some of the airflow #s of a set of AFR 210s that are cleaned up by the buyer. (still costing less than a set of LS1 ported heads).

Don't get me wrong an LS1 can be made to go, but the LT1 is not just some 4 banger honda itself!!! Dollor for dollor the LT1 comes out on top.

 

Man I need some of the stuff you are smoking , I would say a VERY good portion of LS1 ported stock head and cam equipped cars are over 400 RWHP, damn near every LS1 car out of MTI's shop with heads and cam have 400 RWHP . There are a much smaller percentage of LT1 cars making 400 wheel hp than LS1 cars, both stock bottom end head cam package cars. As far as matching torque, who cares, yes a 383 LT1 will out torque a 346 LS1, it should. Many head cam LS1's will outrun a 383 LT1 at the track, most average LT1 383's make as much RWHP as a head cam LS1. The 2 cars my buddies have both had MTI B1 hammer cams, look up the specs, very small hydraulic cams.
As far as AFR 210's being "cleaned up" the heads alone are over $2000, then you need another $500/750 in port work to reach the high 290 CFM range, then a $200 valve job, you got $3000 in a set of heads that flow less than a ported set of LS1's that cost 1/2 as much. LS1 heads will flow 270 CFM stock from GM. And as far as I know a cam is a cam is a cam, If you have it ground for the car, price does not go up with the size of the cam.


Dollar for Dollar, a LS1 will outrun an LT1 (generally) with the same cubic inches. There are LS1's running 9.50s all motor with stock ported head castings, there is a LT1 doing it, Joe Overton, he runs 9.70's with a 383 LT1 But he aint using stock LT1 heads.


Read up http://www.motorsporttech.com/customer_rides/


David