Preformance auto vs stick
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,591
From: PA
because he mentioned fuel economy i kinda assumed (made an A$$ out of U and ME) that we were talking about stock or lightly modded cars. I totally agree that for hardcore dragracing the auto will prevail on a big HP car.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,623
From: Fairfield, ca
Yeah at the track and for consistancy the auto is probably the better of the 2. But for the street you gotta go with manual. Sure from a stoplight the auto would be better. But for overall driving the manual is better. Plus an auto is to boring. At least for me anyways. I like being in full control of the car. Plus i got extremly bad luck with auto trannies. From my days of a mustang owner. That damn AOD tranny couldn't last for nothing.
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 822
From: Lawrence, KS, USA
Originally posted by CANTONRACER
Stick shifts are not a freaking ride at the amusement park people.
Get a good clutch and you have dead leg and let's do some stop and go with a good setup that will handle 11's with slicks, yeah.
In drag racing and street racing, automatics own, simple. No mistakes, more consistent and I personally like not having to shift when I cruise and if I want to blow the tires off or just chirp a little, I shift manually, then back to OD I go.
Let's also not forget torque converter multiplication here...auto's that can leave @ 2000 and cut 1.5 60's.....
I think manuals are fun, for few minutes at least. Every f-bod bud I know personally that is in drag racing and going fast and making good power with M6's would have gone A4 route if they did it again.
Stick shifts are not a freaking ride at the amusement park people.
Get a good clutch and you have dead leg and let's do some stop and go with a good setup that will handle 11's with slicks, yeah.
In drag racing and street racing, automatics own, simple. No mistakes, more consistent and I personally like not having to shift when I cruise and if I want to blow the tires off or just chirp a little, I shift manually, then back to OD I go.
Let's also not forget torque converter multiplication here...auto's that can leave @ 2000 and cut 1.5 60's.....
I think manuals are fun, for few minutes at least. Every f-bod bud I know personally that is in drag racing and going fast and making good power with M6's would have gone A4 route if they did it again.
Ever heard of Star Performance-Engineered Clutches (SPEC)?Automatics own? Or are easier to use (i.e. meant for newbies/novices)? You mean you prefer the car/computer to do all the work for you when you race, instead of pitting driver against driver? Sh*t, my little 10 year old brother can drive something with a gas pedal and a steering wheel...
BTW, you have MORE control to chirp a little or blow the doors of someone with a manual, you just gotta know how to drive one. I can't tell you how much I've improved as a driver by swapping to a manual. I can make my car drive and handle like you couldn't dream in your auto...BTW, you may THINK you're going faster by manually shifting, but I've been shown at the track (proven wrong back when I was wet behind the ears) that an auto (and yes, it was in my 93 Z28...) will turn over better times if you just leave it in D or OD. I ran my best times as an auto while just leaving the shifting up to the tranny. Just a little FYI, "feels faster" doesn't necessarily mean it is faster...Torque converters are nothing more than automatic clutches. With a good clutch and a piar of sticky tires, I rev to 3000, launch, and boom! I'm launching just like your automatic...
I don't know what F-body friends you have preferring an auto over a manual, but they all sound like lazy SOB's to me. Me personally, I like being faced with the challenge of shifting the car myself, knowing that to turn the best times, I have to be the best driver, not have the quicker-shifting auto tranny...JMO
Only things autos are good for are bracket racers & grandma cars...
Last edited by FuryZ28; Jun 11, 2003 at 04:08 AM.
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,764
From: North Canton, OH
Yeah, this newbie with over 2000+ track runs and many race cars don't know ****.....
Just because I run an auto does not mean I do not know how to race a stick. I have seen enough videos here to see how the majority of guys drive and they need an auto. Telling me that you can get better handling, what, am I a 16 year old kid here? You telling me something I don't know?
Some cars are faster when shifting manually in an auto, but that I would say is due to bad shift points being programmed. I had mine set to high last year and by shifting manually my car ran 2-3 tenths quicker. Other than that, I leave it in D.
Feeling faster, torque converter is a automatic with clutches....again, do you think I am an 16 kid that has never turned a wrench? And your cutting low 1.6's with your mods??
About my friends being lazy, nah, they are just tired of blowing up their trannys and rearends.
Didn't LJ put a TH400 in his car......
Just because I run an auto does not mean I do not know how to race a stick. I have seen enough videos here to see how the majority of guys drive and they need an auto. Telling me that you can get better handling, what, am I a 16 year old kid here? You telling me something I don't know?
Some cars are faster when shifting manually in an auto, but that I would say is due to bad shift points being programmed. I had mine set to high last year and by shifting manually my car ran 2-3 tenths quicker. Other than that, I leave it in D.
Feeling faster, torque converter is a automatic with clutches....again, do you think I am an 16 kid that has never turned a wrench? And your cutting low 1.6's with your mods??
About my friends being lazy, nah, they are just tired of blowing up their trannys and rearends.
Didn't LJ put a TH400 in his car......
Banned
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,505
From: looking for a flow bench so Brook and I can race
Originally posted by GreenbeanZ28
I like my 6 speed. Wont ever find a stab-n-steer slushbox in my car. No skirt wearing here.
I like my 6 speed. Wont ever find a stab-n-steer slushbox in my car. No skirt wearing here.
some of us prefer to go faster with less headaches...
point and fact-
drag strip- auto > manual
Road coarse - Manual > auto
Daily driving- depends where you live.
Here in michigan- a daily driven stock sports car, i'm thining manual. Back in NY, Man i'd have trouble justifying it.
Different strokes for different folks
different folks have different needs
almost all of our 500hp+ club here is running a Th400. All "skirted?" No Dunce cap wearing here...
Registered User
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 291
From: Easley, SC, USA
Our 500 hp club down here runs 6 speeds too. So does the 600 hp club. I think its just what you prefer. I will drive my new set up a lot under ordinary driving. Thats why I like my 6 speed. Gas mileage and hard core drag racing may not go together, but its nicer to cruise down the interstate at 2300 or 2400 rpm with my 6 speed and 4.11's vrs 3500-4000 in a stalled th350/400. It is kinda fun to go run 10's and drive home and still get 20 mph with the air on though, too. I hope you really dont think that having an auto means having fewer headaches by any means either. You may find this out whenever your car gets back together with a little power. I like your no dunce cap wearing line too....hehehe.
Banned
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,505
From: looking for a flow bench so Brook and I can race
Originally posted by GreenbeanZ28
Our 500 hp club down here runs 6 speeds too. So does the 600 hp club. I think its just what you prefer. I will drive my new set up a lot under ordinary driving. Thats why I like my 6 speed. Gas mileage and hard core drag racing may not go together, but its nicer to cruise down the interstate at 2300 or 2400 rpm with my 6 speed and 4.11's vrs 3500-4000 in a stalled th350/400. It is kinda fun to go run 10's and drive home and still get 20 mph with the air on though, too. I hope you really dont think that having an auto means having fewer headaches by any means either. You may find this out whenever your car gets back together with a little power. I like your no dunce cap wearing line too....hehehe.
Our 500 hp club down here runs 6 speeds too. So does the 600 hp club. I think its just what you prefer. I will drive my new set up a lot under ordinary driving. Thats why I like my 6 speed. Gas mileage and hard core drag racing may not go together, but its nicer to cruise down the interstate at 2300 or 2400 rpm with my 6 speed and 4.11's vrs 3500-4000 in a stalled th350/400. It is kinda fun to go run 10's and drive home and still get 20 mph with the air on though, too. I hope you really dont think that having an auto means having fewer headaches by any means either. You may find this out whenever your car gets back together with a little power. I like your no dunce cap wearing line too....hehehe.
we are blessed with a borg warner t-56. most aren't. sucks to be an LS1 guy (as far as trans are concerned anyway). after a 9'', chromoly driveshaft, street twin and a host of other upgrades- yeah 6spd is pretty good.
even still, a street twin will cost as much as a rebuild
no one is saying you CANT run a 6spd, i'm just saying its faster and easier in an auto for the drag strip.
With that said- my next car is going to be a 6spd ZR1, C5 or maybe another F-body rebuild- but with a 6spd.
I'm going to see what happens when power meeds twisties
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,521
From: Costa Mesa, CA
6spd for teh twisties, y0!!!!
Sorry for that outburst, just brought back memories of me making fun of some ricer buddies. They say their cars are so fast, then when I beat them they are like, "let's take it to teh twisties!! I'll own j00!!!!"
John
Sorry for that outburst, just brought back memories of me making fun of some ricer buddies. They say their cars are so fast, then when I beat them they are like, "let's take it to teh twisties!! I'll own j00!!!!"
John
Banned
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,505
From: looking for a flow bench so Brook and I can race
Originally posted by FastZinTennessee
6spd for teh twisties, y0!!!!
Sorry for that outburst, just brought back memories of me making fun of some ricer buddies. They say their cars are so fast, then when I beat them they are like, "let's take it to teh twisties!! I'll own j00!!!!"
John
6spd for teh twisties, y0!!!!
Sorry for that outburst, just brought back memories of me making fun of some ricer buddies. They say their cars are so fast, then when I beat them they are like, "let's take it to teh twisties!! I'll own j00!!!!"
John
elephant ****ing **** ............sucked son of a bitch ****!
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Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 10,745
From: Buffalo, New York
For a stock or mildly modded car M6 wins for general street or street/strip use. Stock A4 wins for bracket racing and will be easier to drive at the strip though not as fast as a power shifted, well driven M6. If you put a converter in the A4, it will be faster at the strip as well as easier more consistent.
Once you get in the moderate hp range (~400rwhp) the A4 becomes problematic dues to the fact that it's a wimpy transmission. From what I have seen/heard there are a lot of cars that break even modified A4's, even with moderate hp. So the nod here goes to the M6, but it will need a clutch.
Once you go to hi-po (500+ rwhp) don't even think about using the 4L60E. It will break, repeatedly, upgraded or not. The M6 is easily capable of handling this much hp. If the car is intended to be optimized for the strip, a good TH400 will clearly be faster. But the TH400 has a major disadvantage for the street, no OD. Solutions include the GV OD, which is heavy (~125lbs) and expensive (>$2K) or using a 4L80E, which is an OD TH400. A race 4L80E with race converter will be in the $3K+ range, closer to $4K when you add the tranny cooler, transbrake, etc. needed to use it.
Super hi-po with sticky tires (600-700rwhp and up range) gets to the point where the M6 isn't strong enough. Taner, the fastest M6 guy out there AFAIK, has (I think) broken his three or more times already, and his car has had some weight reduction, which is big help for tranny longevity. So, a high buck TH400 is what you need if you expect reliability. The 4L80E may also be an option in this case. As before, the GV unit will be needed if the car sees a lot of highway use.
The above is relatively objective. But OTOH, some people just prefer one over the other. I prefer a manual, but went to the TH400 to opitmize track use. If I like it, I will also get a GV. This will mean well over $5,000 in the transmission+GV+converter though. It's a close call in my mind, after all, the M6 was still working fine after two sesons with 700+rwhp so maybe it would have held up fine after all.
I did look into the hi-po manual tranny alternatives. None were practical. The one I liked best was the Lenco ST1200. The 5-speed version is HUGE. It would have cost $5,000 for the tranny and who knows how much more to have a bell housing and clutch setup fabbed up - it's far from a bolt in. The car would have required some serious surgery to fit the thing in there and I would have had to figure out a speedometer. The G-Force is much more compact, but not much cheaper. It would also require fabbing a clutch/bell housing setup and it does not shift nicely at all. I am also not convinced it was capable of handling >700rwhp in a 4,000+lb car.
Rich Krause
Once you get in the moderate hp range (~400rwhp) the A4 becomes problematic dues to the fact that it's a wimpy transmission. From what I have seen/heard there are a lot of cars that break even modified A4's, even with moderate hp. So the nod here goes to the M6, but it will need a clutch.
Once you go to hi-po (500+ rwhp) don't even think about using the 4L60E. It will break, repeatedly, upgraded or not. The M6 is easily capable of handling this much hp. If the car is intended to be optimized for the strip, a good TH400 will clearly be faster. But the TH400 has a major disadvantage for the street, no OD. Solutions include the GV OD, which is heavy (~125lbs) and expensive (>$2K) or using a 4L80E, which is an OD TH400. A race 4L80E with race converter will be in the $3K+ range, closer to $4K when you add the tranny cooler, transbrake, etc. needed to use it.
Super hi-po with sticky tires (600-700rwhp and up range) gets to the point where the M6 isn't strong enough. Taner, the fastest M6 guy out there AFAIK, has (I think) broken his three or more times already, and his car has had some weight reduction, which is big help for tranny longevity. So, a high buck TH400 is what you need if you expect reliability. The 4L80E may also be an option in this case. As before, the GV unit will be needed if the car sees a lot of highway use.
The above is relatively objective. But OTOH, some people just prefer one over the other. I prefer a manual, but went to the TH400 to opitmize track use. If I like it, I will also get a GV. This will mean well over $5,000 in the transmission+GV+converter though. It's a close call in my mind, after all, the M6 was still working fine after two sesons with 700+rwhp so maybe it would have held up fine after all.
I did look into the hi-po manual tranny alternatives. None were practical. The one I liked best was the Lenco ST1200. The 5-speed version is HUGE. It would have cost $5,000 for the tranny and who knows how much more to have a bell housing and clutch setup fabbed up - it's far from a bolt in. The car would have required some serious surgery to fit the thing in there and I would have had to figure out a speedometer. The G-Force is much more compact, but not much cheaper. It would also require fabbing a clutch/bell housing setup and it does not shift nicely at all. I am also not convinced it was capable of handling >700rwhp in a 4,000+lb car.
Rich Krause