hmmmmmmm i wonder why.....

 

I've been reading this whole thread and keeping up with the ARE drama. While I have no direct experience with ARE, there are too many of you out there that have had terrible experiences to make me not want to go there. It's definitely not a one-time, isolated customer service "glitch". This is starting to rank right up there with John Henessey and all the people he screwed over.

I feel your pain and I hope it works out for you. Good luck.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by spraytheway
[B]Guys,
ARE has always given the local Canadian car club here decent service. They have befriended each and every member of the local club by sponsoring events and giving away free stuff. For the most part (by my observation) the positive feedback ARE has gotten from the beginning until now has come from the local guys(including some Michigan and NY people). The people who seem to have problems are the out of town guys who send stuff up. The local guys are almost a 100% stand alone support system for Nick and his company. They won't even listen to negative comments past saying the sales pitch words that "things are new and improved and everything is ok". They will support ARE until the bitter end..if it comes. So in closing it doesn't matter what happenned to you they will continue to say good things and ask for second chances.They just wish people with problems will go away and if "money" will do it then that is the plan I don't know if their loyalty is warranted or not. Each person has to make there own choice the same way I chose not to go there in the first place but be rest assured Nick Agostino and ARE is considered to be God and his castle to the TFBM car club. In Toronto in F body(car club) land ARE can do "no wrong".
It personally it kinda makes me ill but then again if the club members won't open their eyes and look at the other good quality shops in Toronto then what can be done?? I resigned my membership to TFBM in 2001 and joined the WNYFBA just so I could escape the ARE phenomenon. I wish everyone the best of luck and I hope all the guys with beefs get fixed up but I emplore you guys Canada is great country with some great racers. Please don't judge us all on your ARE experiances.

Thanks for reading


I'M a canadian and they treated me like sh$t should of done my business in the USA like i always have the past 30 years and never had a problem.If i don't get my money and parts i'll will be paying nick a visit, toronto isn't that big.

Clary

 

ARE 396 w/ forged Ross Pistons, Lunati Rods 5.875 and crank. My spec sheet from them was verbatim. They built my in Dec 01 and received it in Apr-May 02. Took them longer than 6 wks to build even though they guaranteed it. Paid 1/2 up front the other upon completion. Since it took so long they paid for the bare block and shipping to Frankfurt Germany which cost 2G's.

Only reason I know it spec'd out is because the engine went south on me....... nothing related to their work. Only complaint I had was the custom chip w/ it and they tried 3 times to get it right through Superchips. Never worked so I paid for another program and viola it worked. Never had any problems w/ it no over heating nothing. That bitch was rock solid aside from cylinder wash due to the bad program. Rebuilt the bottom end this past summer and the only thing I'm seriously dissapointed in is the blk itself. The bottom of each cylinder is gouged out ragged like someone went in there w/ a sledgehammer and a pic. Should've taken pictures of it but it didn't matter the pistons didn't come down far enough for it to be affected.

Since being rebuilt is still runs like a champ. Like I said I'm the exception but believe me in the beginning I was being shafted w/ the phone calls BUT they did always answer back just not in a timely fashion. I even ranted on here myself trying to trouble shoot things. Came down to a bad chip

Good luck man because I know what you are goin through.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Clary
[B]Clary both yourself and Don need to read my post throughly. I am agreeing with both of you on most levels and all I am trying to point out is that there is a group of people that are brainwashed into thinking that only ARE can get something done. I said in my post I believe that to be sad and sickening but that it is beyond my control. I have never nor will I have a motor built by ARE but I was a member of the car club here that is so devoted that it is seemly poessed like a cult. I am just trying to describe what I see as the ARE mind set of its still happy customers. Thats all. I am sorry for you because you guys obviously aren't happy but in all fairness did you guys really do research opn your engine builder?? Did you find true race engine builders?? Like Pat Musi?? Steve Schmidt?? Gene Fulton?? No you didn't. You guys hopped on the bandwagon and got burned. Is it ARE's fault? Your Fault?? Hell I don't know but you have to go the best builder who will take your project not just a guy online who he and 10 of friends say he will get it done. Think about it. I am on your side but you have pull your heads out of the sand sometime and figure out not when but how you ended up getting screwed. BTW you don't need USA power to go fast. Just a builder who will get it done for you who is professional and can show you first hand how good his work is and yes I have a few ideas for research if you are looking. JMHO.

Vince

 

So Vince……. You were doing OK until the “it’s our fault for dealing with crooks” part.

Let’s see, but is this one of those “I didn’t have sex with your wife, she had sex with me” issues??? And it’s really our fault that Nick screwed so many people because ARE wasn’t researched enough?

Now I'm getting it. Nick is a complete angel and it’s not his fault there are so many honest people out there to take advantage of. Poor Nick... So many honest people and so little time to lie and cheat them.

I also should have gone to an engine shop that charges $25-40k for small block racing engines for my street car whom more than likely wouldn’t even work on a LT1.

BTW. which one of those shops did your engine? You have a Sonny Lenard LT1! Cool!

The sad fact is ARE was recommended by a local shop here in Dallas three years ago because they were happy with their LS1 heads. I saw a couple of cars dyno and they really did pretty good.

Nick on the phone also told me exactly what I wanted to hear on the pending AFR 227 head sale and promised me 320 cfm intake and 220 cfm exhaust. (hint: the sheets with the heads when received said 217/218, but B&B reflowed them as 285/190 cfm) So what’s 35 cfm and $4k among friends??

I should have known something was up that first call regarding the 227 AFR heads when instead of him selling them through the shop whom referred me, he told me I was better off dealing with ARE directly. Nick did a pretty good job of screwing the shop out of a commission.

BTW……..This is also before the word was out on ARE. Seems very quickly the LS1 owners who were happy became unhappy because the cars were using so much oil. Now three years later people are coming out of the woodwork regarding the shady dealings of ARE.

Guess the jest is the damage was done to me anyway before the world got out what scumbags ARE really is. This is why myself and so many others are trying to spread the word so people like you Vince…… don’t get screwed.

 

Take it how you will Denny. I never said anyone was Angel. What happenned to you guys was wrong. I am saying you needed to do research and look harder then ARE for an engine builder. BTW my motor....FastTimes Motorworks in Chicago for alot less money then a $20,000US LS1/LT1 stroker. 9.90's on the motor. You guys didn't look very hard when you found ARE and that in my opinion is the only part that is your fault. You could have done better for the money. The rest of your statements are all true and your complaints legitiment. I am just trying to say that for the most part you guys live in America. You some of the best builders in the world in your own country. Did anyone spend the time to get a better builder then ARE or was it just internet fever that led you down the wrong path?? Well?? I am curious?? How about Don at Patterson if you are in Texas and don't try and tell me he won't build you a motor. I know he will..there is also a little place not far from you named Keith Craft also a very good builder who builds very nice engines for reasonable $$.

Vince

 

Vince….. I hear what you’re saying but life is always all that simple.

I had a 396 redone and it wasn’t making the power it should have. In trying to figure out the issues I called Nick at a Dallas shop’s request. His LS1 heads were making decent power back then and he told me I had maxed out the capability of my GTP LT4 heads and the dummy I am, believed he may have been right. I had no reason to not believe him.

When the car didn’t improve after the head swap, I called Mark Montavio (sp) and Mark felt the runner volume may be too large on the 227 heads so I sent them to B&B to see what they could do to improve them. Turns out they were junk. In fact in hindsight, I don’t think they were even 227’s. He told me he was able to redo the valves so I didn’t need offset rockers. I’d bet the heads were just 210’s as B&B cc’d them and they were 210 on the button.

There is more to the story but in a nutshell I was maxed out with car problems and decided to just put a milder 383 in the car and drive it for a change. The car had been down for almost a year and I was fed up.

Figured it would be next to impossible to get the money out of ARE so I set up an exchange. In trying to make win/win pact out of a bad deal I traded the junk 227 heads and my 398ci block for a complete top to bottom 383 plus cash back. It was suppose to make 390-400 rwhp and frankly at the time, that’s all I was looking for. I just wanted a car to drive and not a AA fuel dragster so researching exotic race shops really wasn’t the issue.

Turns out Nick gigged me a couple more times as the whole 383 was junk and made up a bunch of excuses reneging on the cash back I was suppose to get. Again, the engine had no oil pressure, vibrated to the hilt, included bad injectors, bad TB, etc. I honestly think he just put in a used crank, rods, pistons, bearings etc and didn’t even bother to balance it.

When it was torn down after 15k miles it looked like it had ten times more. By the parts taken out of the engine, it was clear he put just my name on someone’s elses build sheet. Nothing matched. Same for the heads. Lloyd Elliot flowed them and the exhaust was off 25-30cfm and contained wrong parts. Also instead of 390-400 rwhp, the car made only 355 rwhp. What a deal!

My thing is I really don’t like to see dishonest shops cheat people and have no problems passing out heads up on ARE. This is supposed to be a hobby for enjoyment and the predators openly stealing peoples money should be flushed out.

 

Vince i though i did enough research GM HIGH- TECK seems to think there top notch.
Jason at Ramchargers said they were better than MORE PORFAMANCE.
Brook at callies crank said they were the best in the world.
There's a lot more companys that i have talk to before i made my decission.I don't drag race never did all i wanted was an engine for my street car driven only a few times in the summer and got junk twice.
From now on i'll build my own engines like i always done never had any problems untill i delt with ARE. Bad decission i made.
I know how Denny feels and all the others.
So i guess beleive nothing you read nothing you hear and half what you see,i'm 53 years old and still learning.

Clary

 

Well guys what can I say. Your right. You tried to make the best of a poor situation and it got worse and worse. On LS1 tech they are having a big ARE lovefest. Maybe some input over there might be useful to the cause of warning other people of your miss dealings. The situation is just pitiful. After all that I would be inclined to both sue and write letters to everyone who supports ARE. IE. Callies, GMHTP as well as the Canadian Govenor General in Ottawa. As a Canadian and an enthusiast I am ashamed of what has happenned to our Friends to the south. Best of luck and I hope it gets a little better for each and everyone of you.

Vince

 

Actually things are peachy keen right now. All it took was another $7K or so to rebuild the engine, report the heads/intake and replace the TB/injectors.

Amazing how much better the car runs with ARE in my rear view mirror.

Ya...... the LS1 and Vette forums are pretty sick all right. Seems the forums like taking sponsorship money in favor of honest posts.

My congrats to this list for allowing the truth to be told.

 

In the automotive/racing community word spreads fast on who's going fast! This is misleading sometimes as a shop car could have have all the bells and whistles and the resource to rebuild when needed. Spraying huge amounts of nitrous and running a number is great advertising, but where's the reliability? As mentioned above by Vince, there are many great shops south of the border. In Canada though there didn't seem to be any big names. Then ARE surfaced and the internet helped them reach a level no one expected. Combined with a few write ups in some mags and they miraciously became a premier shop. What also played a big factor was the exchage rate, you could get more from your dollar.
Over the years many people were dissappointed, lied to and taken for a lot of money by this shop. In the end ARE is now struggling to survive and asking for second chances. This hobby of ours is very expensive and before giving up your hard earned money look at the facts. I have not seen so many people complain about one shop before. Sure everyone has a bad apple here and there, but I'm suprised ARE lasted this long.
To all who had bad dealings with them I hope everything works out for you. Its a nice feeling to have when you step on the throttle and you actually got what you payed for.

ps. If anyone knows of any reputable shops in Canada please share. Vince???

 

I think the research you engine builder is an important part of going to someone for building engine. But even so, If you do contract someone to do work you expect to get the exact parts you paid for(not something else), get good customer service, and not get lied too repeatedly.

 

I will also like to add,
What are the "pro" ARE people smoking on LS1tech?

 

The thing is you can’t believe anything that comes out of Nicks as maybe ARE is having financial trouble and maybe ARE is not.

It’s all a game of finding a sucker and getting his money to Nick. He pulled the same thing on me a couple of years ago complaining of his health and lack of cash flow. Who know what the truth is? Who cares? You can’t trust ARE no matter what.

Like every single con artist, I found Nick to be quite knowledgeable and quite charming. The problem is when you’re talking to him, you have to realize he’s in the same category as topless dancers, pimps and hookers……. Their only goal is go get as much money as possible while giving you as little as possible. And, when the money is gone, so are they.

Again, the best thing to do is get he word out on ARE and use as many of the honest vendors on this board as possible. Also remember there are no magic beans so if someone tries to sell ya some, don’t expect a giant bean stalk to be in the backyard the next day.

I have absolutely nothing against Canada at all and in fact think the opposite, however when doing business across international boundaries realize that you have very little recourse. Canada is another country not bound by our court system. So remember this when your setting up a financial transaction with a business in another country……….. once done, it’s real hard to undo.