I too thank you for everything that you guys are doing over there. I got a good buddy who just got sent to Mortar Alley just west of Baghdad.
Your explanation makes a little more sense now, I just figured you were some kid who thinks because he has 2000, he feels that "money isn't an issue".

 

Dont forget about a hella bad tranny to bolt up to it.

I had that same idea about my car over a year ago when I bought a stout 383 with a forged Lunati bottom end. I thought ok now some heads cam and intake and I will be rolling. WRONG! Well I had better get some good heads while im at it. After getting the run around at TEA for 4 months I went to Futral and now about 5k and 3 months later I have it allmost here. So in the mean time I thought well might as well buy a K member. A arms, TH400, BMR extreme duty T/A, $12oo Coan converter, shifter, cross member, M6 console, LTCC conversion, HD driveshaft, Strange 12bolt, rear lower control arms, cage, external fuel pump, braided line and sumped tank. $200 tranny cooler, NX Direct port kit, NOS nitrous controller, 58MM TB, needless to say I am regretting buying the damn 383 and ruining a 97 formula daily driver and turning it into something that has been on jack stands for over a year and the butt of many jokes from the non beleavers. I still have to put it all togehter, get custom exaust welded up, build a stand alone nitrous system and get it dyno tuned. Should have kept the car as it was, and went and bought a new bass boat with the 15-20K I spent on the car this year. Just to warn you, it can snowball outta control fast be prepared for a long, expensive road for a simple 383 swap. Might even loose a significant other in the process. Not alot of them think its a great idea to sit back and watch you blow thousands of dollars on a hobby. While your spending thousands of dollars on a car you cant drive every month makes you wonder about what else you could/can be spending that money on.
But if thats your idea of fun, go for it.
And thank you for everything your doing for us.

 

500 rwhp NA...as pointed out..mucho $$$...

I have been what I can used in an effort to save money...and I still have spent a decent amount....what I spent so far...and let's not forget I already had most bolt-ons that could be bought...500 rwhp and not being able to squat with it because you either break something or you never hook up...sorta like being gifted with a 12" dong, yet when it comes time to get busy, you can never get it up...point...you have a lot but can't do sheet with it!

My combo and what it is costing me...
AFR 210 heads professionally ported(killer #'s), also came with a fully ported LT4 intake(which is setup for a distrib if I ever want to and ported for a Monoblade if I ever want to), stout solid roller cam, custom valve covers with stud girdles(yeah, different eh). This is probably around $6000 in parts and labor, I bought for $3250 shipped.
Solid roller lifters....Crane...paid $225 shipped, new for $460 from SummitRacing.
Crank...well I have two, a Lunati 3.750" stroke ($1300 new) or the Callies 3.875" I just bought...($787 new).
Rods...I run Lunati pieces ($800 new).
Pistons...custom made ($700-$800 new)..unless I can get a decent deal...
Rings....tool steel top, cast second...($200 range)
Main bearings....$100
Rod bearings...$60
Timing chain...$80
Oil pan $300

I still have $1000's in stuff that nickels and dimes you down.

Then you have to make sure the car can handle this "umph"...

I went Moser 12-bolt(33 spline, ta cover, 4 channel, yada, yada) $1900 in it.
TH-400, $900 in it(which was steal being it came out of a 9 second car)
TQ $775 brand new(sells for $1120), steal for a Neil Chance unit
driveshaft, Mark Williams unit, $375, was almost $800 new
I also still need a flexplate, some sensor so my speedo works and who knows what else.

Then you have to address fuel and electronics..
Fuel injectors, fuel system, opti is garbage so you need to resolve that issue....

Then you have just your army of bolt-ons...elec wp, headers, exhaust system, y-pipe, cai, the list goes on dude.

Then you have to address suspension...stout TA, LCA's, shocks, springs and everything else that goes with it.

THEN, do you want to be legal...you know, SFI approved...get the damper thing, the flexplate, (bellhousing I think), for me it meant trans shield and flex plate shield. Then the all important...Rollcage?

AND this is still only a small part of it...rims, tires, weight reduction...AND THEN...

THE BIGGEST KILLER OF ALL......who is going to do this work. This one question alone kills most dreams because of $$$ constraints.

I hope this sort of gives you the concept of what it means to really make 500 rwhp.

Buy a supercharger with a mediocore short block, nothing crazy and be done with it...in hindsight, that is what I should have done.

CANTONRACER

Edit...

Oh yeah....how long do you want it to last...Like I plan on bracket racing my car alot...so that changes the quality of the parts you need.

 

I am reading this in Iraq right now as I am setting up my combo and with all the money I am saving I dont have enough so far i have my heads cam and short block and im sitting at 6500 I still have all those other goodies to get including everything to put the power to the ground

BTW where are you at Im in Balad right now

 

Better plan on dropping about 15-20k and a year to year and half down time for 500rwhp.

 

[QUOTE=CANTONRACER]sorta like being gifted with a 12" dong, yet when it comes time to get busy, you can never get it up...point...you have a lot but can't do sheet with it!

I never have a problem with mine. It's just that you can only use half of it with most women. But the same idea.

 

Low compression w/power adder = $$$$

High compression NA ~500 rwhp = $$$

High compression NA ~400 rwhp + 100-150 hp nitrous = $$

So I guess the question is, which of those is in your budget?

I bet I've talked to 100 people, detailing exactly what they needed to do to replicate my build and I have yet to see anyone even try it. Usually when someone asks about making 550 rwhp NA I will answer them with a question like... what if you could run 11 flat or even high 10's with 450 rwhp... would that be enough? And they'll usually answer... "Yeah, how do I do that?!?". lol

Some people just have a hard time voicing their goals. If you want something that isn't going to lose any stop light fights then a 400-450 rwhp puts you at very good odds for a win, especially when the car hooks well and the driver is good. So you have to figure out what it is you really want.

500 rwhp is doable and I just put an engine together for a friend of mine who happens to also be my dentist. <~ see, looking good!
He has plenty of money and he's not a drag racer.. so he wanted something that would make the number but not shake his teeth out, lol. Just one of many of us who likes to be "over the top". The engine we built is a 355 using AFR's 215RR heads for LT1 and a custom intake with longer (than LT1) runners built by CFE. The cam is a custom hydraulic roller smaller than the CC306 and there are a lot of little details to why this engine does what it does. The torque curve is table-top flat and the peak hp is just a few horsies shy of 500 now that all the tuning is worked out. Tranny is a g-force beefed T56 out through a Dana rear (C4 vette).

Yes, there is alot of money in this engine but not as much as I see some guys spending to make less hp. No billet rods, nothing real fancy other than the induction... but that's where the power is.

-Mindgame

 

My Dad and I are going for 500 RWHP through an automatic(locked converter) and a 9 inch rear with 4.11 gears on pump gas with a 23* head. I would probably go into FULL cardiac arrest if I added up all the money to go there. And we are still not there...getting closer though.

We are not using LT1 heads or intake, but are using an LT1 block, opti, stock ECM and a 4L60E.....stay tuned.


David

 

500rw is the number that me and bret are going to be shooting for with my motor that were going to be putting together pretty soon and he feels that this is going to be able to be done for a whole lot cheaper then some of the costs that ive seen so far on this thread. were starting off with a eagle crank/rods, mahle pistons, 12:1 cr, LE3 heads and custom grind cam I think were going to stay HR as bret feels it will be sufficient to get the job done, and I have no problem believing him, Intake will be a converted super vic and carb since I want to be different and I feel that since i want the most I can get out of it will produce what I want and still be in my budget. And the money in this motor is nothing compared to some of the build costs that you guys are throwing around.


it helps that i can get a 30-40% discount on components through my buddy who works at a local race shop and doing the labor ourselves. He did the machining for free and he did damn correct so im not worried about it, even if I was paying full for all of this stuff it still isnt costing as much as someother setups... 500 is definately achievable after alot of time is spent on the dyno finetuneing everything and what not but this is where motors are made and you get the most out of them. Then after the 100-150 shot it gets even more rewarding.\


-john

-john

 

I don't understand this. The money alone needed for the engine is around $15k average from people's estimations. It probably won't be worth a crap on the street anymore so why not start with a rustbucket with a crate 4 barrell if it's a drag car. If you're into racing (like, going around turns and using the brakes and all that neat stuff) then you're gonna need another $10k in suspension, etc to handle the power. That's $25k not counting the "extras" people speak of. Then you've got all the headaches; even if the person putting all this together is very dependable, you're looking at dozens of bugs to work out.

Geez, a used Z06 with some miles on it and a blower/spray/whatever and you're at 500hp for a few more thousand (with some miles, mind you) and still a hell of a lot more practical.

No offense and I appreciate your determination. It just sounds like you're getting into a big mess and I've been there, done that hehehe... so I'm just thinking... sheesh....

Stay safe and dodge those bullets...

 

You're right about the investment for the horsepower alone. Whether its "worth a crap on the street" is subjective at best - a good tune with a good combination is surprisingly docile for what it is. The reason most don't start with an older carb'd car is, ironically, financial. I restored and made a street/strip Chevelle - I have a ton more into it than I do the Camaro, and it's not nearly as comfortable, no A/C, and gets way worse mileage. I surmise most opt to build the f-body is due to the reasonably complete platform to start with, looks and the fact that they already have the car.

And $10k buys a lot of suspension - probably a bit more than anyone on this board has spent, even including brakes.

Regardless of the final amount, you're always going to have bugs to work out on any hi-po application, FI or carb. Obviously, having the work done by someone super-qualified helps reduce the types of issues you inevitably chase.

Absolutely true. Where's your sense of adventure? I've contemplated this more than I care to admit - to the point of wanting to sell my Z and mod my C5 instead. But then reality hits me, and I question why I'd want to screw up a perfectly good car. The initial investment, and insurance, for a f-body is clearly cheaper than for a C5/Z06.

Me too, on both cars. My next car will be a C6-Z06 and I will not mod that car.

Every once in a while, one will get you though....

 

500 rwhp, contrary to popular opinion, is not that tough to do if you concentrate your efforts in the right areas.

There are a few different approaches to doing it...

1. The brute force approach = big cam, big heads, big injectors... NA power. Break out the NASCAR-type cams and get ready to shake the paint off the fenders.

2. Nitrous oxide = Moderate performance NA + nitrous. Near stock drivability, but you're likely to get lost in the crowd.

3. The more drivable, more expensive approach = Excellent heads, intake, induction and exhaust with a mild-moderate camshaft. Everything has to be optimal to get there but an excellent set of heads (think "raised runner" or "race head") and an intake that won't hold them back is the ticket. Then you just need to get the tuning dialed in.

No "right" way or "wrong" way... just "different" ways. For me... #3 is the only way to go. I keep my drag cars and my street cars seperated in my garage so they don't cross-breed.

-Mindgame

 

You left out the pocketbook approach.
Believe me it will cost $20,000+ to build a N/A 500+RWHP engine that will stay together and not be out of the car every couple of weeks.
I agree about the heads and cam and intake. Streetability comes second but mine and FastFatboy's car will be driven even if it's got to have springs every 500 miles and guides every year.It's got 775+lift.

 

Well as the saying goes....

Fast, Cheap, Reliable... you can only pick 2

 

I like to think that 580hp is all it takes to do 500rwhp.....

I have a 396 that should be ready for the spring that should put that down easy. (SAE etc...) It also has to be a crusier so it's not the solid roller scary bastard that you would think it would be. I want to throw it on the dyno and go from there, then I'll say it's a real 500rwhp true street motor, not a race motor that you drive on the street.

Bret