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LT1 Based Engine Tech 1993-1997 LT1/LT4 Engine Related
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1997 Project

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Old 04-13-2018, 10:41 AM
  #106  
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Re: 1997 Project

To inspect the rear of the engine, a friend let me borrow a bore scope. I didn't have a mirror, and free was a better option. I was a bit panicked when I started looking at the engine, but when seeing the pictures on the computer, I can see the line of oil coming down the head gasket.

Above cylinder 8:


Looking up towards the intake manifold up the gasket:


Looking at the back of the head:


Oil pressure sensor:


Rear driver side of intake manifold:
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Old 04-14-2018, 05:09 AM
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Re: 1997 Project

I think your saying the oil is dripping out'a the back of the intake and down along the head. Not much oil flows through the head - just the oil drain back for what comes out the p-rods. So I'm think'n its oil splash on the intake dripping out the back.

I always use a generous 1/4" bead of RTV on the rear china wall for the intake. Don't how to much can hurt much back there. Let it skin first then drop the manifold on.

Good luck.
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Old 04-16-2018, 09:43 AM
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Re: 1997 Project

The last picture looks like the RTV got pushed out on the driver side corner. I think the oil is coming out that corner, then running down the crevice where the head gasket is then down the oil filter.
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Old 04-21-2018, 04:30 PM
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Re: 1997 Project

The car is cracked open again today, and I was surprised how easy the intake was versus what I was expecting. The biggest pain was getting the steam pipe off the back of the heads.

I am at a halt however, because the gaskets I bought (Felpro 1284), do not fit the heads. I bought a different set at the store today Felpro MS 95580, and they match up with the 1284.

This is the first set of gaskets that I have bought for the intake. I thought the LT1 and LT4 gaskets were the same, but its off. This is an LT4 conversion kit that I bought from a dealership that included the gaskets, heads and intake. I had the intake port matched to the gasket, and the heads ported and polished by 10 Liter Performance in Colorado.





The small plastic tabs that hold the gasket to the heads are about 1/4 off on either side. The port holes on the old gaskets are also taller.

Any ideas?
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Old 04-21-2018, 04:38 PM
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Re: 1997 Project

I found it, GMPP 12367777, and of course no one in town stocks it
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Old 04-21-2018, 08:15 PM
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Re: 1997 Project

Yeah, I tried to cross it for ya and only could find the FelPro intake kit which includes the TB, EGR and injector seals. And of course no one in town has that in stock either. Well NAPA says to call for stock but I have my doubts.
FYI its FPG MS96386.

Summit carries that for $20 and they ship fast here in Nevada.

Well you'll be ready next weekend.
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Old 04-22-2018, 09:16 PM
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Re: 1997 Project

Yep Op, you have LT4 heads/intake so you need specific LT4 intake gaskets

Summit out of Sparks should have these in Vegas next day ground

IDK if FelPro also makes it in the "printo" seal type but would get that if they do

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/f...6/applications

Last edited by Chimera96; 04-22-2018 at 09:28 PM.
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Old 04-23-2018, 10:33 AM
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Re: 1997 Project

Ground shipping from Summit is the best, the new gaskets will be in today. It left me for an easy Sunday. I ended up doing a front brake job on the wife's car, so something that came apart got to go back together.

I normally don't shop at NAPA because their cost seems to be high.

I was mislead by Jegs: https://www.jegs.com/i/Fel-Pro/375/1284/10002/-1
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Old 04-23-2018, 11:44 AM
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Re: 1997 Project

yeah from the Sparks, NV distro warehouse I get regular ground next day here in SoCal from Summit.

To bad Jegs had wrong info on gasket

On the china walls I prefer Permatex Black "uultra" RTV. Use about a 1/4"-3/8" thick bead that runs up about 1" onto the heads

Let motor sit overnight after installing intake manifold so RTV can cure

You mentioned the intake came right off...suggesting the seal was not very good. It usually takes some "prying" to get the intake off
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Old 04-23-2018, 12:01 PM
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Re: 1997 Project

I might have ran 1/4" up the heads before, but will definitely run up more this time. Ultra black is primed and ready to go. Do you use any RTV on the intake bolts?

By coming off easily, I meant more the process of getting everything off. Including draining the coolant, and cleaning the intake, heads and China walls I was just over 2 hours of time. The hardest part of the process was getting the steam pipe off the back of the driver side. Do the gaskets for that need to be replaced? Anyhow, prying at the front passenger side off the accessory bracket was required. Looking at the RTV left behind, my best guess is that I did not get the intake aligned correctly when I put it on and had to slide it forward, pushing the rear RTV bead out from under the intake.
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Old 04-23-2018, 02:00 PM
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Re: 1997 Project

When placing the intake manifold, use dowels in at least two of the bolt holes on one side to insure the manifold locates correctly on the heads and doesn’t need to be slid.
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Old 04-23-2018, 04:12 PM
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Re: 1997 Project

Originally Posted by DrewHMS97SS View Post
. Do you use any RTV on the intake bolts?

The hardest part of the process was getting the steam pipe off the back of the driver side. Do the gaskets for that need to be replaced? .
No RTV on intake bolts. Use "thread sealer". It is typically white in color. Permatex also makes it

If the steam pipe gaskets are torn they need replacing. I have otherwise re-used them before. (pic) You need 4

Originally Posted by Injuneer View Post
When placing the intake manifold, use dowels in at least two of the bolt holes on one side to insure the manifold locates correctly on the heads and doesn’t need to be slid.
^^^^

this really helps especially bending over the fender to place the manifold. Do a "test fit" first to confirm no wire harness or other item is in the way. As you found out you certainly don't want to "slide" the intake manifold into place as it moves the RTV off the mating surface. I wipe down both china wall, heads and intake mating surfaces with acetone before gasket & RTV install
Attached Thumbnails 1997 Project-steam-pipe-seal.jpg  
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Old 04-27-2018, 09:39 PM
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Re: 1997 Project

The new gaskets were exactly what I had previously



And the intake is back on the car, sitting overnight for the RTV



I ended up buying a longer bolt and chopping the head off to make the guide for the intake. It worked pretty well, I got the hole line up and basically let it fall straight down.

Thanks for the help guys, hopefully this was the only leak, and the RMS can stay where it is!
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Old 04-30-2018, 12:14 PM
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Re: 1997 Project

The car was back on the road this weekend after buttoning up the top end. The intake was definitely the primary source of the leak. I had a few drops on the ground after it sat overnight, but I think it might have been some residual that was on the transmission.

I fixed the poor running condition by fixing the plug wires: I had 6/8 swapped. I swear I triple checked it, but it was indeed wrong.

New info from my drive, I felt a bit of stutter at about 5500 RPM WOT then had a strong smell of clutch. Now there is some clanking noise (clutch chatter?) when the clutch is engaged, which goes away with the clutch to the floor. This is a Spec stage 4 with carbon pucks mated to a Spec billet flywheel.

While I don't pretend to be a perfect driver, I have had a few other manuals that I have put 80k+ miles on without clutch issues, and this is the 3rd clutch on this car. I had 2 Centerforce clutches previously, each lasting less than 3k miles (when I bought the car, it had 100k on the dial and I put about 6k on the clutch (which looked stock). I replaced the slave cylinder before putting the Spec clutch in, and this is making me think the clutch is not fully disengaging. How would I verify, and is it even possible to make adjustments?
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Old 04-30-2018, 12:43 PM
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Re: 1997 Project

Originally Posted by DrewHMS97SS View Post
New info from my drive, I felt a bit of stutter at about 5500 RPM WOT then had a strong smell of clutch. Now there is some clanking noise (clutch chatter?) when the clutch is engaged, which goes away with the clutch to the floor. This is a Spec stage 4 with carbon pucks mated to a Spec billet flywheel.



I replaced the slave cylinder before putting the Spec clutch in, and this is making me think the clutch is not fully disengaging. How would I verify, and is it even possible to make adjustments?
the "stutter" you felt..then clutch smell at 5500 RPM would suggest the clutch was slipping

Carbon "puc" type clutches are more aggressive friction material than a stock organic full disc clutch and are more prone to "chatter" than stock clutch but that happens on engagement. Sounds like your clutch was slipping while under load. You can initiate a load test by finding a incline and while going up it at 45 mph in 4th...floor it. Does the "studder" (chatter) happen and you smell clutch?. If yes your clutch is slipping. Given you have gone through a few clutches is short order you should confirm you are not leaking oil onto clutch. Your rear intake leak certainly could have caused this and if so your clutch is done. Perhaps the same reason you went through 2 centerforce clutches previously. Rear main leak would also puke oil on clutch.

To check that the clutch does disengage completely jack up rear end an put on jack stands, start car, put in gear with clutch fully depressed. Do rear wheels move? If they do the clutch is not fully disengaging. This could be because of a warped disc but generally is a sign of failing hydraulics or hydraulics that need further bleeding

Is your clutch pedal firm or is there some "spongy" feeling initially when depressed??
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